UN and exports, continued, sorry but have a story from the last 4 weeks

[RJW NZ]

Re the comments about UN legislation etc, when I've seen these kind of warnings before I've not been too concerned, surely the irrationality of making after market rifles slings a prohibited item, will shine through and no one in their right mind would pay any attention.

That was until the 1st week in august when I get letter from NZ customs (I live in NZ) saying they're withholding a Parker Hale aperture sight (I sold on ebay and had mailed out) from export because I need a permit under UN laws about export and control of weapons of mass destruction. (pic coming)

Under these laws is also a paragraph that prohibits the export of all rifle slings, scopes, sights, and more. It's generic. There's no waiver for sporting use, civilian use, that its vintage, non military, not a crucial part of a gun, and that these are just accessory items that exist around the world by the billions.
NZ was supposed to enforce all of this mass destruction legislation beginning 15 months ago, but had not, and as of a few weeks ago the powers that be at our capitol have decided to rigorously enforce all of it beginning August 2010.
I had to apply for an export permit for aperture sights, sight parts, telescopic sights and enfield slings. As I usually buy and sell more than one or two in a year on ebay I was able to get a year long permit. It requires cataloging and reporting what I've exported each 6 months, and where to.

The permit was issued under a clause in the legislation that recognizes these are not restricted parts banned for any export, other than black listed countries, but which does allow export of sporting rifle goods providing they have a permit describing buyer, destination and the item.
The legislation is worded to recognize that these are not crucial military items.

I leaned heavily on the fact that my items are commonwealth made, commonwealth destined, used mainly in civilian target competitions, other than for evaluation never saw military use, are old, but not so old they come under vintage heritage laws (which most enfields in NZ now do and can't be legally exported without a permit from a heritage govt department), and are generally worn out requiring restoration.

My free, year long, permit was issued within a week, which tells me they're not too worried about this but are going through the motions (so to speak, plenty of motions at the the UN, if you get my drift).

I could try ignoring them and just stick the stuff in the mail but NZ customs now x ray all departing mail and are currently looking for this stuff. In three years I've had departing mail stopped for aperture sights, a pair of 303 slings in a box, a 1907 bayonet, and currently have a number 7 bayo stuck for 6 weeks in their system.
FWY I never put gun related descriptions on my packages, eg an aperture sight gets declared on the box as an 'old, used, optical sight',

So, what was being discussed in the previous, now closed thread, has actually arrived and is being put into effect in NZ.
Its not as severe as it could be but the creeping effect of de facto gun control overriding a countries local fire arms laws is concerning.
(How it works is typical of all UN stuff like this. A proposal is put forward for eg. shared economic aid, anyone can sign up or not. If a country doesn't sign up for the aid, they just don't get the aid, for, say education funding. If a country does sign up they get the aid but also get the little clauses attached to the main item, such as little gun laws, accepting increased immigrant quotas, etc. I'm not saying this is good or bad, this is just describing the procedure)

I have an ebay friend in OZ who had the same scenario run on her last year, but in that case they refused to issue an export permit for her aperture sight. They intercepted her package, came to her house, threatened prosecution if she tried, and did the stand over thing, she's quite frightened, even if she hasn't broken any laws she can't afford to pay lawyers. She's just a general purpose ebayer, baby clothes, stuff from yard sales etc, she is not on anyones radar as a gun active personna.

The sight I was trying to export, a weapon of mass destruction? A Parker Hale 17, which is for an air rifle.
Heaven save us from beurocrats with rubber stamps, lol, we'll all smother in paper forms, providing we have a permit, lol.

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[Son]

Thankyou for an unbiased and totally factual account of your experience, RJW. If nothing else, it shows it would be of advantage for anyone who is trading such accessory items across borders to make enquiries about their current legal requirements. Having to apply for permits in retrospect is a big enough pain in the a$$, but add to that your auction site reputation and bad feedback over unexpected delays....

Quite a few years ago I sold an Aldis No4 scope (pictured on page 16 of Clive Law's book, "Without Warning") to a collector in Canada. It went missing in the post. After about ten weeks Aust Post had tracked it to Canada customs where it had sat unwrappd on some blokes desk for two months. He decided to send it on after the questions were asked as to it's whereabouts... The shredded "safe packaging" it had left with was taped up roughly and thankfully it arrived undamaged a full 13 weeks after departure.

At least I suppose if they have a reason to hold something now, the sender won't be left guessing (tearing my hair out actually) about what's happened!

[5thBatt]

The shredded "safe packaging" it had left with was taped up roughly and thankfully it arrived undamaged a full 13 weeks after departure.

You mean they just ripped open the package!! they should have used a "box cutter"

[Surpmil]

Better sell what you want to sell and buy what you want to buy soon folks. The watertight doors are already closing!

[RJW NZ]

Canada post is unique and not in a good way.

Thanks for the comments, Son. I wanted to point out with this ,
a - these problems are already here in places,
b- by sort of rolling with it that its not always as bad as it first looks, permits are possible and not always obstructive. The govt official I had on the phone for an hour pointed out that recording the destinations on a permit is more about them making sure I'm not shipping to countries that are arming up.

[smellie]

Oh, dear old Canada Post is unique, allright!

So far they have "lost" for me 2 Stens, 1 FAL, 1 big box of Christmas gifts and about $10,000 worth of optical equipment. Following all of this, I did manage to collect $170 in insurance.

They also manage to lose First Class Mail at times, by the truckload when they go on strike. I am STILL waiting for my application for the offered PhD scholarship to Rice U to arrive there. I sent it in 1970.

But it IS indeed odd that a big parcel can be "lost" totally....... except for the address label, carefully sliced off.... and they always seem to know just which post office it was "lost" in. Funny.... but when I lose something, generally I have no idea where it is!

But a genuine Civil Servant wouldn't tell a FIB!

BTW, I have some really nice waterfront property for sale. It's in a very historical place called Death Valley.
.

[roughneck12]

I have been noticing that its been getting harder to get bits and pieces out of the US. Even things that I have gotten before. This is getting absurd.

[PrinzEugen]

Hopeless really isn't it. i suppose it arises from the amount of stuff which is being bought in the west and turning up being used against our forces in Afghanistan etc. Beaurocratic minds don't see the difference between historic items of no use to Terry Taliban and more modern stuff, and just ban the lot. I suppose when you draft laws and export rules throwing in more clauses make it, in their eyes, easier to find loopholes for the terrorists etc.
Just read Eight Lives Down by Chris Hunter, a really great book I'd recommend to anyone here - and it just goes to show one side of the problem - in this case it's electonics bought in the West being used to make ieds, but the similarities are there for anyone to see with the situation with guns, and where it's now leading to us in terms of export shutdowns.

[Brian Dick]

PrinzEugen has hit the nail on the head. Defense Trade Control here in the USA is more worried that weapons will turn up in places they shouldn't. Incidentally, I found out at the ATF/Dept. of State import/export conference that they can hold registrants like myself responsible even after the export license has been approved, lodged and the firearms shipped years ago. That is a scary thought sometimes since I have no control over what happens once the new owner gets his firearm. They also told me that an unscrupulous exporter, (they wouldn't tell me who), got caught trying to send a few thousand Ishapore 2A and 2A1 rifles through a second party to actually arm some bad guys and it put a spotlight on Lee Enfields in caliber 7.62 so there you go. There's always an as---le that ruins it for everybody. Can you imagine arming up insurgents with those rifles when AK's are available dirt cheap in the third world?? I certainly can't. Brian

[bearhunter]

Just trying to ship the Ishapores out of the US would be a monumental chore. Africa, the far east and middle east, are awash with just about everything any serious terrorist could possibly want. I suspect you fellows are correct but also the powers that be, just took it and ran with it while they had the chance.