No.4 Mk1 (T) - need advice

[ChasSmith]

I've come across a No.4 Mk.1 (T), 1945 M47 C, with transit box, scope and scope can. Seems to be a post-war rebuild and the rifle and scope don't match. The rifle matches itself and is tied to the box by a rebuild sheet - printed 1-54, which I believe is the date of the re-build - with the rifle's serial number, affixed to one end of the transit box. The transit box is in fine shape, though not quite excellent. The scope is numbered to the scope can and it's leather carry sling is a little dirty, but still very pliable. Both the scope and rifle are in great shape, excellent in nearly every respect. The rifle is marked TR at the wrist, T next to the ejector screw, S on the right side and crown over D6E at the tang. In fact, all the appropriate and essential marks and stamps identifying this as an authentic British sniper are in place, except for one big exception: There is no S51 on the buttstock. I've never seen an authentic rifle without the H&H stamp and don't know what to make of it. Is this a deal breaker? I'm not interested in it, even at a good price if it isn't the real thing. What do you guys think?

Hope someone out there can provide me with some advice.

Another thing. There are no real marks on the buttstock except a G at the heel, near the butt plate and a couple of hard to read small inspector's stamps at the wrist. Both seem to be crown over something. On the underside of the forend is a fairly large J C - for John Curtis, I believe, a broad arrow, the serial number stamped parallel to the bore, and crown over Z 1 E. Any chance the J C indicates the stock rebuilder?

Sorry I'm without camera or I'd be happy to post pics. If you need more info I will be happy to supply what I can. I have copious notes.

Also, any ideas what something like this might be worth? I saw some prices at the last Rock Island auction that startled me.

Thanks for any help you can provide, I don't really know what to do.

Charles Smith

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[jmoore]

I wouldn't worry about the lack of the "S51". All that means is that the buttstock is a replacement- not uncommon at all, esp. if it's been Suncorite'd (painted). As you stated, it had been overhauled/rebuilt, so one would expect some parts replacement...
The scope number won't match the rifle's S/N, but the number on the bracket (if any) should. The scope S/N proper to the weapon will be on the top of the wrist of the buttstock just behind the cocking piece.

[Peter Laidler]

JM's just about summed it up for you Chas. As Armourers, we wouldn't think twice about changing a damaged butt for a replacement but we'd have stamped the telescope number into the top of the wrist.

As a matter of interest, there are other No4T fiends who think that when a rifle goes into an Armourers shop, we hunt high and low for the correct manufacturers mark for a this that and the other or ensure that the wotsit is the exact type it left BSA with............. Not a bit! The next part in the box or pulled off the refurbished tray goes on!

But back to the butts. There are other collectors who would turn their noses up at the thought of a split butt that had been holed and pegged or a broken heel or toe that had been lovingly cut out, patched and pegged, ready to serve another lifetime

[ChasSmith]

Gentleman,
Thank-you for the re-assurance. That's pretty much what I thought, but, since the whole kit represents something of an investment, I wanted to be sure. I've gone ahead and sealed the deal and am feeling pretty pleased about the whole transaction.

One last question - for the moment anyway: The windage and elevation knobs, both turn, though harder than they should. If the story of the seller is true, the rifle probably hasn't been fired in over forty years, so I imagine this has something to do with the problem. Can the drums be lubed in some way - oil, or WD40 - to ease them up a bit? Or is such a thing out of the question? This isn't something I'd try speculatively without checking with an expert. The scope is Mk111 with a W painted on.

Charles Smith

[RJW NZ]

Its well known for the grease in the turrets to dry out, stiffen up or freeze the knobs, there's a cleaning service available I suspect you're about to find out about. well done, good buy.

[Peter Laidler]

Re the range and deflection drum knobs. Look, if you can turn them, albeit that they're reasonably stiff/tight, then just spin them a few times left/right/up/down and they'll ease off. It's keeping the old ones moving that helps them as it keeps the old grease supple. Nowadays we use graphite. But if you can help it, then don't strip!

[ChasSmith]

Peter,
The elevation knob seems to work just fine, but the windage knob, while moving the reticle, really is a bear. It makes an audible, though not strong, click moving in one direction and is mushy in the other. I believe I will take your advice and just turn it a few times every now and then. It might ease up after a little work. In any case, it is useable now, just not much fun. Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.
Charles

[andya1thomas]

Hello , sounds like a nice buy congrats and all. My N04T has no S51 stamp either but everything else is there, the butt looks like it has been sanded and shaped slightly and has ( I think ) lost the stamp in the prosess.I have not been unduly bothered about it as the rifle shoots very well and I picked it up for a song.I have however had to get a repro transit box and I am filling it up with the scope can,Binos ect as they become available at reasonable prices.
I hope you enjoy your rifle as much as I have mine I would not part with it for the world.