Help on Identfying an No. 1 Enfield

[mdrim13]

I recently was handed and old rifle and told it was mine because I like that "oddball" stuff. I opened the case and knew it was an Enfield. After further inspection i realized that it was a No.1 Mk1. I was wondering if anyone would be able to give me some information on this rifle if i was to provide a lot of photos.

To get started, this is what is near the bolt handle on a piece of sheet metal:

(Crown)
E.R.
BSA Co
1907
ShtLE
I(star)**

Thank You to anyone that may help.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[smellie]

Friend, you were just handed a very scarce old rifle!

Okay, let's look at the marks. BTW, that steel that they are stamped on is VERY heavy: it is the butt socket and it is a solid part of the main frame of the rifle, called the BODY.

The Crown with the ER below it means that the rifle is the property of King Edward VII: Edwardius Rex in Latin. This ALSO signifies that the rifle was built FOR the Army. There were also Commercial rifles made and they do not have this Government stamp.

BSA Co. was the Birmingham Small Arms Company, which got its start doing breechloading conversions of Enfield rifled-muskets into Snider-Enfield rifles back in 1866. Their first big job of work after that was to manufacture a whole bunch of Martini-Henry rifles and they eventually adopted a picture of 3 Martinis as their trademark; it went all over the world on about a million motorcycles. The company went bust in the late 1980s and the old Small Heath factory where your rifle was made was demolished in 1989 instead of being preserved as the National Historic Site which it was. But they made your rifle.

1907 is the year that they made it, too, and a lot of interesting things happened in the gun world that year. From the marking on the rifle, I would think that it was made very early in 1907; the new rifle, the Mark III, was adopted at the end of January and entered production imediately.

ShtLE is the type of rifle: a Short Lee-Enfield because it has only a 25-inch barrel, making it 5 inches shorter than the old long Lee-Enfield rifle which had been made up until 6 years previously.

And this is where things become VERY interesting. HOW MANY Stars are on your rifle, friend? Look very carefully, because on some of them the final Star is punched very lightly. The Stars serve to tell you which of the several minor modifications your rifle is, and some of them are very scarce. The PRODUCTION rifle at that time was the I* but most of these were later modded to I**.... and the greatest part of THOSE were modded to I***. And here we are, a century later and the I*** is a rare rifle, the I* is very rare and the I** is like finding teeth in a chicken-ranch.

Important points: does your rifle have a complete bridge-type charger guide? Or do you still have the sliding-bolt-head charger guide with THE LEFT HALF of the guide on the rifle? Does your rifle have a letter "N", a quarter-inch high, on the LEFT side of the butt-socket? (This is the Navy mark.)

Anyway, if you can post some photos, somebody wil clear this up. But, right now, it is sounding as if you have something very special.

Hope this helps.

[mdrim13]

Thank you for your intrest smellie. First off i guess i was not very clear on the markings after the I. The first characyer is a star, not an astrisk. It is a six point star that has nothing in the middle. After the star there are two **(astrisks) This is what really has me confused.

Second I can not tell if there is an "N" on the left side of the butt socket because there is some sort of peep sight that folds up. It has some sort of dial aimer a bit ahead of the regular sight.

Third. My bolt has the sliding type charger that is fixed to the bolt head and slides back with the bolt. The left side is fixed to the reciever

Hope This Makes Sense

[RCS]

Attachment 15979 If your rifle has the original serial number lined-out and a new serial with a prefix of CR or ER it was used by the Irish. The G prefix, I am not certain?

[Gingercat]

Here's mine, with what I take to be the 'Navy' issue mark on the left hand side of the butt socket.

Mine has also had a charger bridge fitted in service and no longer has the sliding charger guide on the bolt.

Kind regards

Mike

[bigduke6]

Mike,

There is a nice 1905 BSA No1 Mk1* on guntrader at present £800 I think (dont have the funds myself) but would make a nice companion to yours.

[jrhead75]

Thank you for your intrest smellie. First off i guess i was not very clear on the markings after the I. The first characyer is a star, not an astrisk. It is a six point star that has nothing in the middle. After the star there are two **(astrisks) This is what really has me confused.

Second I can not tell if there is an "N" on the left side of the butt socket because there is some sort of peep sight that folds up. It has some sort of dial aimer a bit ahead of the regular sight.

Third. My bolt has the sliding type charger that is fixed to the bolt head and slides back with the bolt. The left side is fixed to the reciever

Hope This Makes Sense

Sounds like a pretty typical MkI***, the star being BSA's version of the asterisk, with the other two being added when she was originally brought up to MkIII specs with the MkVII sighting upgrade starting in April of 1914 (IIRC) . In that case, there probably won't be an "N". The Royal Navy also modified their nose caps to straighten the sight protector "ears", but I don't remember when exactly that mod was put into effect.

The folding peep sight and dial sound like the standard volley sights. Is the original serial number lined out, with a new one added? As mentioned before, this would indicate post WWI Irish usage.

Sounds like a nice rifle...they don't exactly fall out of the trees any more, would love to see pics. I'm a big fan of the MkI short MLEs.

[mdrim13]

Here are some pictures of the rifle in question. Thanks for the feedback so far and more is always appriciated. Please leave any comments and/or estimated values. Thanks.

[Steve H. in N.Y.]

Yep, that's a sweet one. It retains it's Mk.I type backsight which is a bit of a plus. I see that the magazine cutoff is missing but these are available from several sources and easy to install. Check out this link if you haven't already done so.

Milsurps - 1907 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) MkI*** Rifle

[mdrim13]

Another Question regaurding the rifle. There is "T" above the original SN for the gun. Does this mean anything or is it just another factory code? The picture is above if there are any questions about what I am talking about. Thanks again guys.

mdrim13