Comments regarding wire wrapped Grenade Launchers and the Irish question with picture

[breakeyp]

As no detailed records or research has surfaced concerning the cord/wire wrapped grenade launching rifles, my comments as follows are based on observations of examples and hopefully application of common sense. I have commented on GL rifles previously and find that I have to alter those comments based on a cord wrapped No.1 Mk1*** I purchased this weekend.

This rifle is of interest for several reasons. It is a 1907 with socket markings, "BSA Co. Sparkbrook indicating the short period of time BSA took over the Government Sparkbrook plant and operated it as such. The original serial number has been cancelled and an ER 7259 has been added to the receiver. The location and diameter of the cord wrap is different from the Indian cord wrap I have. The location pattern of this rifle also matches that used on G series wire wrapped GL rifles. Pictures are to follow later in the commentary.

I has been established that Ireland in the 1920's purchased reconditioned No.1 Mk1*** rifles from Britian. The rifles have new serial numberes added with ER and CR prefixes over cancelled original numbers. This is confirmed by Irish published Army manuals that give specific sight instructions for CR and ER serialled rifles. We also have the "Shamrock Enfield" certificate that Hunters Lodge provided with sales of their Irish rifles. The certificates include the serial number. All this is pretty well understood and accepted by the collecting community. The problem becomes ......

Concurrent with the Irish surplus sales to the US, a vast number of ER rifles were also sold that were marked with a new serial number Gxxx into over G3000 numbers. These are wire wrapped grenade launchers with cancelled ER numbers and cancelled original numbers. We assumed these wire wrapped were also connected with Irish sale because they happened at the same time. This may be in error.

We know Britian used cord and wire wrapped grenade launchers even if the manuals show regular rifles in use as grenade launchers. The Textbook of Small Arms or a manual ( I don't remember just now) makes a comment that wrapping was done for long term use training arms, implying that WWI operations with GL were done with standard rifles. This may be correct at a point in time.

What has always bothered me the large number G series grenade serial numbers and ER CR numbers being attributed only to Ireland. From the number of guns invovled, Ireland must have been awash with Lees!

What seems to me to be more reasonable is that Britian did a series of upgrades to their inventory bringing obsolete Mk1s up to the Mk1*** level and for what ever reason, renumbered them as CR and ERs. After this was done, some, but not all, were sold to Ireland. Later Britian determined a need for GL rifles for grenade, line throwing and signal work took the remaining ER rifles in inventory and wire wrapped them designating them with a new serial number range, G series. I have yet to find a CR rifle converted to G series. Britian certainly had the numbers of troops to support the large number of rifles so converted. I can't see Ireland needing such a large number. England phased out the GL rifle/ M36 grenade system about 1942 when they went to the 2 inch mortar. As Enland was suprplusing WWII arms in the 1960's, I expect the GLs were dumped at the same time as the Irish guns.

To return to the new cord wrapped rifle. It is not marked G serices, It has the ER serial number and cord wrapping which Britian had phased out in favor of wire wrap. I submit that this rifle is one bought by the Irish and later converted by them for grenade launching use. I can't see Ireland needing a pot full of grenade launchers.

The pictures of the cord wrap follow:

Information

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[RCS]

Some years ago I purchased this Mark 1 *** from a friend who found it in a GA pawnshop back in the early 1980's. It is marked ER ENFIELD 1904 SHT LE 1 ***. Original serial 8255/B and ER 427 both lined-out, new serial is G839, bolt is G837 and nosecap is G839. The butt has the rear sling swivel with a single screw (Mark 1) and the stock disc is marked S ^. The fore-end is a replacement with the single pin without the two small washers and un-numbered. Notice in my photo that there is faint marks on the rear handguard of wire wrap and the front handguard is a Mark 111. If this was a grenade launching rifle, it was converted back to a normal rifle ?Attachment 16027

[breakeyp]

Some years ago I purchased this Mark 1 *** from a friend who found it in a GA pawnshop back in the early 1980's. It is marked ER ENFIELD 1904 SHT LE 1 ***. Original serial 8255/B and ER 427 both lined-out, new serial is G839, bolt is G837 and nosecap is G839. The butt has the rear sling swivel with a single screw (Mark 1) and the stock disc is marked S ^. The fore-end is a replacement with the single pin without the two small washers and un-numbered. Notice in my photo that there is faint marks on the rear handguard of wire wrap and the front handguard is a Mark 111. If this was a grenade launching rifle, it was converted back to a normal rifle ?Attachment 16027

An excellent example of never throw anything away. It seems reasonable that all the work was done after it was made a G series as the repair/replacement parts are all G serial numbered as well. Very nice.

[breakeyp]

I was finally able to post pictures of the cord wrapped No.1 in the original start of this thread. To avoid confusion, I wil now post pictures of the G series wire wrapped No.1 Mk 1*** rifle. Note the common placement of wraps.

[Peter Laidler]

I haven't followed this thread too closely but have seen maybe a couple of hundred or so EY rifles in service in the past. Not in use I should add but from war reserve stocks being overhauled on a rotating basis. I have to say that of those, they were all Mk3 or 3/1 variants with serial numbers in the general run of numbers. We'd have certainly noted oddballs, such as any without the charger guide etc. And if our numbering range was (generally) within the G prefix range, we'd have certainly noticed that - as we did with the LB Mk3 Brens and VS Mk5 Stens.

That's only in UK Military service though and only my observations. I never saw a discharger cup in the Armourers shop but someone told me that they'd been overhauled/greased up in the A&G section (the Armament and General section as opposed to the SA&MG workshops!