PARKER HALE 5C aperture sights ......

[Bearclaw]

Peter, or should I say Pete the Pom being an Aussie,
Opening Cadet room cubboard doors reminds me of the 1968 movie If... now all I have to do is check out my school's armoury it was fulll of Lee Enfield stuff I am sure that now they are using SLR's they won't want it " I wish"

Myles

[RJW NZ]

Anyone got any of the 3/32 balls?

yup, how many? I ordered a bunch from the local bearing shop, perfect and dead cheap.

a great tip from a buddy, if you need the spring thats under that ball break open a bic lighter and pull out the spring under the flint, its long but a 99% perfect fit.

[Peter Laidler]

Whatever you do............... I've just spent a good few hours making(?) a new lead screw for one of the PH sights and believe me, the threads are nothing that us mere earthlings would recognise. Does anyone know Mr Spocks address so I might ask him? The adjusting nut/thumbscrew is.... well, forget your 3 or 3.5mm or 5 or 6 BA. An ideal would be to bore oversize the hole in the thumbscrew and make it a 4 or 5 BA to match up with a new lead screw. But just try boring one out. They're diamond hard - probably because they've got to stand the ravages of the ball constantly clicking over the clicker part.

The thumbscrew nut thread has defeated my Zeus guide and even the Machinery's Handbook from the technical library. Unless another forumer knows better, they're simply TPI's over a diameter!

Oh well, back to the drawing board................

It's a 40TPI over a 1/8" diameter......... phew!

[Surpmil]

You've totally lost me Surpmil! If you mean mount a sight base onto the No4T rear pad and secure it with a single 1/4" BSF screw, then you can't because the mounting/securing screw would foul the elevating arm lead screw big time. I'm sure that it's easier and simpler and cheaper to adapt an existing sight idea, such as they've done.

Given the quantity of P-H sights required for any (Military and civilian) No4T shooters would be limited to, maybe a couple of dozen, it wouldn't be economic to tool up for yet another base configuration. In any case, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, I would imagine that the SR(b) rules stated exactly what sight you could use

What do you mean by central sight?
....

Peter, I was envisioning a bar projecting rearwards with the usual grooves to mate to the Central sight as shown. Where this base has two countersunk screw holes to attach to the body of the rifle, I was envisioning a mating surface identical to that on the rear " leg" of the usualNo4(T)/L42 scope brackets, with the same thumbscrew to attach.

I like the way the Centrals can be moved back and forwards along the mounting rail, just by using a different hole for the mounting screw.

[Peter Laidler]

Ah, got you now Surpmil...... Same meat but totally different gravy so to speak, I was unaware of the Century sight. Mind you, looking at the format, P-H and AJ Parker did something similar with an interchangeable top/adjustment part fitted to a rifle specific base. I can see/understand what they mean now about non interchangeable.......... jeeeees, not even the threads are interchangeable through the range!

There was an AJParker 4/47 sight among the various P-H sights but yet another variable, among the many different P-H types was sufficient to prevent me from even looking at it!

I had a PM from a browsing forumer regarding the P-H sights. He's written to them many years ago asking for a couple of spare parts for a couple of his well worn rifle club PH 5 type sights. P-H replied to the effect that '....... there were several variants and being 'delicate' instruments (?) they required the appropriate handling during repair by technically and skilled, well trained technicians with skills..... blah blah blah.............' In other words, they wanted to do the job at some high price because noone even had the slightest clue exactly what combinatioon of sights he/the club had

[Valleysniper]

Peter

Well they might have discovered Mr Spocks address here:

News Blog: Astronomers may have spotted Mr. Spock's home planet

The PH threads are not BSC (British Standard Cycle) threads are they?

http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/bscbot.htm

Live long and prosper.

[Peter Laidler]

Could well be Taff but on those I have had to make a few parts for, they're all 6BA now! Incidentally, if anyone has a box of bits for these P-H 5 type sights and is contemplating making up a few, then here's a bit of an incentive, to whet your appetite so to speak. Don't get me wrong lads, it's not to whet your appetite to START the project, but to whet your appetite to NOT EVEN BOTHER to start! Here is a list of the variables just in the little box of sights that I have here. If you're REALLY bored, then here goes! This covers just 3 mark types......... The P-H 5C, the 5D and the P-H CD. That's three before we even start!

THE BASE
Mounting combination. 1) Drill and tap-your-own-holes. 2) use existing holes
Material. 1) LM25/Dural. 2)Steel
Quick release (QR)mech. 1) lockable sprung plunger at front. 2) spring loaded plunger at rear
Scale. 1) 0 to 80 minutes of angle only. 2) As at 1 and 0 to 1200 yards (twin zero)
Anti backlash facility. 1) Ball and sprung dovetail. 2) none
Lead screw. 1) Coarse (10 clicks / MoA). 2) Fine, 20 clicks / MoA
Q.R. plunger thread. 1) fine. 2) coarse.

THE ARM
Form. 1) Squared/oblong cross section. 2) Dovetail section
Anti backlash. 1) Yes, in cursor slide. 2) None
Deflection arm. 1) Short arm, 1.6" long. 2) long, 1.85" long
Thumbscrews. 1) 10 click knobs. 2) 8 click knobs. 3) shallow knobs. 4) deep knobs. 5) rounded knobs. 6) squared chequered knobs
Scale, deflection. 1) 0 - 0. 2) 20 -0 -20.
Scale, range. 1) 0 to 5 on left MoA side with twin zero mark aligning with the 0. 2) as 1 with twin zero line aligning with 5.

Remember, that's just those I have in this little box of those taken from their No4, 8 and 9 rifles 10 years ago so as sure as god made little green apples, there's BOUND to be more. If you know of any, please let me know

[Bindi2]

Peter being a sadist you have just started. In ozz we had all those plus central, because we are Colonial and like it easy we stuck to Central except for the 7.62 when the others went to 8 clicks per degree or more. Find the latest sight eg: envoy or last 7.62 military range rifle then work backwards every rifle and calibre had a sight to suit from more than one maker. Have you gone cross eyed yet. I know people who collect sights only and the collections are large.

[bigduke6]

Ron ( rgg 7) mentioned the musgrave so thought I,d post some pics of the T.Z. M68 that was on a musgrave action, have compared it with a 4/47 to fit a No4, and some more pics to show the
the 7.62 variation compared with a .303 (I think) and a PH V11 on a P14 action,

7.62 and .303




PH V11



M68





M68 and 4/47

[Claven2]

FWIW, although I know we've moved on a bit, the No.4T modified sights show all the classic signs of post-manufacture machining on a manual mill and re-blueing. Certainly, this is how Iwould adapt one on my milling machine if I needed to do so