Questions About My No.4 Mk1 (T) Sniper Rifle

[Shootingmaster]

I purchased a No.4 Mk1 (T) sniper rifle a few years ago from a gun shop in Anchorage, Alaska. The gun shop was selling several guns that use to belong to an Englishman with the last name of Mitford (Rumor has it that he was some type of spy or intelligence officer during WWII, any info on him would be appreciated). Most of the guns for sale from the collection were made in England, Canada, Australia & Scotland. From the collection I bought this rifle, a double rifle and a very early Webley revolver. Anyway after reading Peter Laidler's "An Armourer's Perspective" I still have a few questions concerning my No.4 Mk1 (T) rifle and I am hoping someone can help answer some of them. My rifle came with a 15 MK1 chest, MK III scope and metal scope box. The left butt socket is marked 47C, 1944, H33363, TR. Left receiver is marked very lightly with what appears to be an electro-pencil and says N4 Mk1 (T1) with an arrow pointing up, but no Holland & Holland T present. Right receiver has the S stamp present, England, and a stamp I don't recognize. Butt stock has S51 and serial number of rifle, but no scope number. Back of receiver has crown over D6 over E. Below front scope pad stamped in the wood is an X. Front sight setup appears to be non MK1 and sight blade says FOR on top. I am wondering if this rifle could be one of the Holland & Holland rifles that was rejected by them because of the lack of T, different front sight and no scope number on butt stock (Note bore does have 5 grooves). Also 15 MK1 chest is stamped (T. Less Telescope) on the front. But tag on the end of the chest mentions the MKIII scope. I am unable to locate any FTR stamps or marks on the rifle. Scope seems to fit scope pads ok and it appears to zero properly. What do I have.

Information

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[rgg_7]

Rifle is in above average condition and it's a great find. The serial number "H33363" is correct for a 1944 BSA Shirley manufactured rifle. Perhaps the rifle was converted by Holland & Holland and sent to Stores as a "Less Telescope" rifle. The scope bracket is serialized to a different rifle "52225" and has another number that's been barred out. Can you tell us what that is? Also the white paper states the scope as "52225"...way out of any scope number although it does note "17611". Does this number appear on you scope body. Can you tell us the marking on the scope body? IMO., originally a "Less Telescope" rifle and scope was added later in its life. Very nice example....don't know about the story of the previous owner however if you have a name you shoulfd be able to research that as well. Ron

The front sight is a MK11...must have been changed out to get a sight pattern.....most likely the marking is "ROF".

[Shootingmaster]

Serial #17611 is stamped on the scope (AK&S 1945). 52225 stamped on scope bracket (former rifle number I assume) Xed out number above 52225 appears to be an A pre-fix number not clear. Bracket near front marked N92. Apparently armourers tag filled out incorrectly (Scope serial number and bracket rifle number reversed on scope tag). Thanks Ron for the info.

Mike

[Peter Laidler]

The BIC - 61 in red indicates that it was disposed of from the big Ordnance Depot at BICESTER, Oxfordshire in 1961. It just looks to me as though it has been made without a telescope (no tele number on the butt) and sent to Ordnance like that. Telescope quickly fitted at Ordnance later withoiut much thought about it, probably by some Ordnance blanket stacker chappie. Disposed of and ended up in Canada.

Just my thoughts if I saw one on my bench for inspection and repair one morning

[Shootingmaster]

Mr Laidler thanks for the info concerning my rifle. I especially enjoyed the comment about the blanket stacker. Best Regards.

[Beerhunter]

The rifle has been 'officially' imported to the US. (The ENGLAND mark.) It has been through British Civilian gun trade. (GP = Gunmakers Proof - London. The lack of a Crowned V 'View' mark suggests post 1954.)

So the spy story looks a bit iffy. Unless of course he was retired spy.

The Mitfords were very much part of the pre-war British Establishment. I suggest quick search in Wikipedia on "Mitford Family".

[Shootingmaster]

I fail to see what he might of done in WWII has anything to do with proof marks on my rifle. He was an avid gun collector and I have no idea when & where he acquired this piece. His collection that was being sold by the gun shop in Anchorage consisted of 150 firearms and took 2 years to sell all of them. He had recently passed away and his wife was selling these guns. I understood that some time after WWII he moved from England to North America. Thats all I know. I appreciate the info about the Mitfords.

[Gnr527]

Blanket stackers very often had different priorities.

As a National serviceman, having completed trade training at Larkhill, I booked into Woolwich for the night on route to BAOR and was issued/checked/signed for bedding.

2 sheets turned out to be 1 torn neatly down the middle.

Cant remember the exact figures but twenty-six shillings a week didnt pay for the "lost/damaged/destroyed" sheet.

Those early weeks provided a sharp learning curve.

[Shootingmaster]

Interesting about the 2 sheets out of one.

[jmoore]

Two things strike me strange, not a lot, but here goes:
Odd that a rifle that was w/o telescope until it was being sold off would have had the scope pad screws properly staked, including the "I've been Staked" mark.
Also odd is the "52225" number on the bracket. No prefix and first number "5"?
Little things, but interesting.