A4 replica advise

[viking guy]

I HAVE MET A FELLOW WHO IS BUILDING A4 REPLICAS. HE USES ORIGINAL RA BOLT,RA BARREL, AND A NATIONAL ORDNANCE RECEIVER. HE USES THE N.O.RECEIVER BECAUSE IT HAS A METAL CUTOUT JUST LIKE THE TRUE A4 WHERE THE BOLT HANDLE CLOSES DOWN TO. HE SAID O3A3S DO NOT HAVE THIS CUTOUT. THE SCOPES ARE WEAVER 330 WITH ELECTROPENCILED SERIAL NUMBERS ON RIGHT REAR SIDE OF THE SCOPE TUBE. HE WOULD BUILD ME ONE USING A KOLLMORGEN 4X SERIAL 3 11394(NICE!) OR A 330 AS DESCRIBED, NEW RA 3-43 BARREL THAT GAUGES 1.2-1.5 AT MUZZLE(I INSPECTED AND GAUGED THIS PARTICULAR BARREL), RA A4 BOLT, REPRO C STOCK OR A GENUINE STOCK THAT IS FAIRLY BANGED UP. ON A NATIONAL ORDANCE RECEIVER. I CAN PICK BLUED OR PARKERIZED FINISH ON FRONT AND REAR BARREL BANDS. PRICE 1200.

CHUCKINDENVER HAS INDICATED NATIONAL ORDNANCE RECEIVERS SHOULD NOT BE USED ON SHOOTERS(cast receiver-he knows of 5 catastrophic receiver failures). IS THIS A CONSENSUS OPINION OF BOARD EXPERTS?

I WOULD WANT TO SHOOT THE RIFLE. DO I NIX THE NATIONAL ORDANCE IN FAVOR OF A RA 03A3 RECEIVER? IF HE HAS A 03A3 RECEIVER IN STOCK AND THE PRICE IS 1200 TO 1400 SHOULD I GO FOR IT? SHOULD I USE THE OPTICALLY-SUPERIOR AND 4X POWER KOLLMORGEN OR THE WEAVER 330?

HE HAS BEEN COLLECTING RA PARTS FOR 45 YEARS SO HE MAY HAVE A RA RECEIVER.

HE IS A BENCH REST SHOOTER. I ASKED HIM IF HE WOULD GUARANTEE 1.5 MOA OR BETTER ACCURACY AT 100 YARDS. HE SAID HE WOULD BUILD THE RIFLE AND SHIP IT TO ME. I COULD RANGE TEST IT AND IF I WAS HAPPY I MAIL HIM THE MONEY. IF NOT HAPPY I SEND THE RIFLE BACK.

ADVICE APPRECIATED.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Allen Humphrey]

I have never owened or fired a NO receiver, nor will I based on what I have seen and read. Consider that to be an opinion based on word-of-mouth, not data. Considering that the price difference between a NO receiver (value=$0) and a real RA is under $200, I would go for the real deal and never flinch when I pulled the trigger for the first time or 5000th time. I also wouldn't want to listen to every expert at the range give me their opinion about a NO every time I shoot Also, given the price you listed and the fact that you are considering a NO, have you considered the Gibbs replica? There are plenty of comments to hear about those too, but I would shoot one any day of the week over a NO. Just one man's opinion. Have fun.

[Chuckindenver]

tell you what,...you take a gander at the picture of a National Ord, rifle, that was shot with factory ammo, and failed after less then 75 rounds...
make your own assesment.
personally i would get a 1903A3 receiver thats already been drilled for a Redfield scope base, and use that one for a fake A4 project..you may have to wait a while, but its well worth the wait...
anything worth doing is worth doing right.....right?

[Chuckindenver]

another pic for grins

[Calfed]

I'm also thinking of building up an A4 replica for my son. I'm also planning on building one for myself, but have already found a sportered 03A4 that I've reserved for that one.

At $1200, for a National Ordinance receiver based A4, I think you are paying WAY too much. This doesn't even address the safety issues that surround NO receivers. I've purchased several sportered 03A3's for less than $250. These came with uncut barrels in very good shape, receivers that were already drilled for either Lyman aperture sights or Redfield scope mounts and cut down military stocks that still had some of the stock metal attached for use on a new military stock. Once you have all this, all you really need is a scope and mounts, a repro military stock and the remaining stock metal. I think that you could probably put something together, using an "honest to God" Smith-Corona or Remington 03A3 receiver for less than half of $1200.

That leaves the issue of a scope. I do not think that you would be happy with a Weaver 330 scope. While they are historically more accurate, optically, they suck . You will be far happier with a Lyman Alaskan. A 4X Kollmorgen would be nicer still, but I do not believe there is any historical connection between the Kollmorgen scope and the 03A4. That fact notwithstanding, I've bought several Kollmorgen 4X scopes on Ebay for less than 60 dollars. Considering that this is not going to be anything more than a reproduction A4, I would consider a Weaver K2.5 as an alternative to the Weaver 330 or Lyman Alaskan. Another alternative is a Weaver K4. There is some evidence that K4's were used on the 03A4 by the military and law enforcement.

Just my .02.

[viking guy]

Thanks to all who responded. I will cancel the build and look for a sporterized 03 as suggested. I am glad MILSURPS is around. I would be very down to find this out after I purchased the rifle.

I have a Weaver K4-60 on my Long Branch T and it works well out to 200 yards. Blued tube with just the right amount of patina and nearly identical in length to a No32 MKIII scope.

He was asking $200 for the new 3-43 RA barrel that gauges 1.5 at the bore.He has period correct Redfield mounts.Price? He has complete A4 bolts-what is one worth? Maybe I should just buy these parts and hold them until i find a receiver. Whats a new repro stock worth?

Anybody have a good 03 RA receiver or barreled action for sale?

Maybe this is just a bad idea with little chance of return on investment.

[Calfed]

Maybe this is just a bad idea with little chance of return on investment.

Viking..if this is bad idea, it is one that many of us have

He was asking $200 for the new 3-43 RA barrel that gauges 1.5 at the bore

I'm not sure what this is. If it is a new RA barrel it should gauge closer to a "0" at the bore. If it gauges a "1.5", I would doubt that it is new. New (still in the wrap) 2 groove RA barrels are usually available for less..maybe $125-150.

But here is the thing..I've purchased three sportered 03/03A3's and all of them had good bores..gauged "1" or less. I believe that the reason for this is that back in the day, when these were sportered, nobody sportered an 03A3 that had a bad bore. Why would they? If it had a bad bore, NIW 03/03A3 barrels were available for less than $10. (some say less than $1 on sale). After being sportered, these were probably not shot much and probably with commercial (non corrosive) ammo, resulting in a decent bore.

So, you might not need a new barrel (and the installation fees) if you carefully buy the right sportered 03A3.

As for the "period correct" Redfield mounts..do you really need to pay extra for "period correct" anything on this project? This is a repro..what you are really aiming for, it seems to me, is the "look and feel" of an 03A4. Why pay alot for a correct scope mount to put on a non-correct receiver? Newer Redfield JR mounts, that look almost identical to the original 03A4 mounts are readily available for much less than a correct mount. Ditto with a "correct" A4 bolt.

I believe the same about a Weaver 330 scope. By even late 40's early 50's standards, those were abominable scopes. But, they are expensive now because people buy them to make "correct" 03A4's. But they will never be "correct", because almost all Weaver 330's that you see are commercial models, so why bother? The Lyman Alaskan scopes were also "correct", are much better scopes and are also readily available. But the Alaskans are also on the high side. Why not get a Weaver K2.5 or K3 and have the "look and feel" of the Alaskan scope for much less.

Here is one other thing to bear in mind...once you have put this together with "look and feel" rather than "correct" parts, you will have something to shoot and enjoy while you bide your time waiting for a good deal on a more "correct" part.

Whats a new repro stock worth

Repro 03A3 "C" stocks seem to go for around $160 with a handguard. A surplus "scant" stock from Numerich, in good shape, but possibly with some minor tip damage is about half that price and just as correct as the "C" stock, historically (at least from what I've heard).

Good luck. This is something, IMO, to have fun with. Don't think of it as an investment or something that needs to be "correct"..it will never be correct. But it will probably be fun and that is your "return on investment" right there

Last year I found a sportered 03A4--correct receiver, scope mount, bolt and probably barrel.
restoring an 03A4
But...it had been heavily polished and blued, so all of the barrel markings were gone. Even with these original parts, this will never be "correct" because it was so heavily polished before bluing.

[Bill Hollinger]

Chuck, thank you for the photos of the blown receiver. And that looks like blood on the scope??? I think that says it all. WOW!

[Chuckindenver]

your welcome. yes thats blood, the owner shooter asked that i not show his face, he is a member here, or at least was at one time..he was kind enough to let me keep and share the pictures, i have a nice little collection of blown up, and failed guns..some the guns fault, some the shooters fault,...this one was the guns fault..lucky the shooter was wearing glasses and only got a face pepper..with minor wounds.

[mike radford]

I talked to this builder at NGD. Nice guy.

His bolts were not original, in fact they were kind of ugly. One stock I looked at looked like the real deal. The only scope left were suspect, probably a commercial 330 with added electopenciled markings.

If he had a nice M73b1, in a nice A4 stock, good original barrel and correct rings, these parts are probably worth the total cost. I do not think I would be shooting a NO receiver after reading this thread.