Singer cruciform rare?

[old-smithy]

THe cruciform No4 is one of the earliest fakes, along with the Kukri sockets. THere were many copies sold inth e60's that werent made as fakes but for collecting, trouble is these now have 50 years of age and are harder to tell by th enew look.

Etched 84/98s were started in the UK in the late 60's by a guy in his garage for fun, now people sell them as grandads pick ups and people pay stupid money

German stuff has been copied for years as th eorigianl Dies for the medals and badges were "capture" and in some cases the german companies themselves made them for the "vet" market. Horster is supposedly to have made 84/98's for occupying GI's to send home. Now you could collect just fakes, I used to try to keep up and get everyone I could, that is no longer possible and some are complete fantasy.

[peregrinvs]

I am waiting for fake No.5's to appear next! I wouldnt be suprised!

Prepare to be unsurprised...

Military Antiques, Military Collectibles and Militaria British Enfield No.5 Jungle Carbine Bayonet w/ Scabbard: New Collector Grade IMA-USA.COM

Thankfully I bought a real one in July 2000 at the first Beltring I attended and from memory it was £35-40.

Another addition to the ever-growing 'I'm glad I bought that when I did' list.

[tankhunter]

Prepare to be unsurprised...

Military Antiques, Military Collectibles and Militaria British Enfield No.5 Jungle Carbine Bayonet w/ Scabbard: New Collector Grade IMA-USA.COM

Thankfully I bought a real one in July 2000 at the first Beltring I attended and from memory it was £35-40.

Another addition to the ever-growing 'I'm glad I bought that when I did' list.

Only these are NOT fakes! They are R.F.I (Rifle Factory ishapore) indian made variants for the SMG (Sterling) which they still make under licence. I tried to buy one from them when i ordered a bit of gear a year or so back. They wouldnt send an edged weapon to the UK then!
I want one for my own collection as well!......................

[peregrinvs]

I know the Ichapore Rifle Factory made No.5 bayonets, but I would be very surprised if the IMA bayonets were made there. If nothing else, the blade marking looks nothing like the example illustrated in Skennerton. They are possibly made by this outfit:

Jungle Carbine Bayonet

My understanding is that genuine RFI made No.5 bayonets are very rare.

[tankhunter]

I know the Ichapore Rifle Factory made No.5 bayonets, but I would be very surprised if the IMA bayonets were made there. If nothing else, the blade marking looks nothing like the example illustrated in Skennerton. They are possibly made by this outfit:

Jungle Carbine Bayonet

My understanding is that genuine RFI made No.5 bayonets are very rare.

I have seen a few of these No.5 Indian types. When you examine them & hold them in your hand. They feel slightly undersize & slimmer. I also know Christian Cranmer the Chief Exec & Owner of I.M.A. When he was on a UK visit to this then established firm Firepower International in Godstone (Now Closed)
I enquired about this very topic. He assured me that they were geniune. He did agree that they do indeed have collector grade copies made of other Bayonets however. IE: Jap Arisaka, K98k, US Remington Trowel Etc Etc. It remains to be seen however, if he has had THEM copied as well! (The Indian No.5's)

[old-smithy]

Collectors grae, means copy, its like World Wide Arms int eh UK that sell "pattern" blades, these are copies made for the collectors market. At one thime they may have had real No5's by RFI but now.............. These copies have been around for a long time, and i have never seen any proof that they are anything but copies, why make blades for obsolete weapons - OK I know the Saudis made bayoents for their MAuser 98's but they were still issue weapons so old but not obsolete. I am jsut glad they didnt do them as MkI's

[tankhunter]

Collectors grae, means copy, its like World Wide Arms int eh UK that sell "pattern" blades, these are copies made for the collectors market. At one thime they may have had real No5's by RFI but now.............. These copies have been around for a long time, and i have never seen any proof that they are anything but copies, why make blades for obsolete weapons - OK I know the Saudis made bayoents for their MAuser 98's but they were still issue weapons so old but not obsolete. I am jsut glad they didnt do them as MkI's

Hiya Smithy, Yep, I concur with your comments RE: 'Collector Grade' & also WWA term of 'Pattern' blade. It's a play on words to get a sale. If the customer is unhappy, it's a money back guarantee. If the customer dosent' complain. It's a sale! Not exactly a best practice as far as sales go. But hey, they are only interested in making money at the end of the day!......
RE: 'Obsolete Weapons'. The R.F.I No.5 is not JUST for the Lee Enfiled No.5 Jungle carbine. It was THE bayonet also for the L2A3 Sterling SMG. This SMG is STILL current issue & Production in India. Hence the possibilty that I.M.A's Indian No.5's MAY still be genuine!.......Just my two pennies worth, & going on the Info that Christian Cranmer told me at the time.

[gew8805]

Peter, The CORRECT MKI Should have either the small stylised crown & GR on the socket, OR, a larger finely impressed & detailed crown & GR. The fakes were usualy made from MKII's with flutes machined onto the spike. ANY spike made after a MKI will NOT officially have been stamped with this crown & Royal inistials.

Ah but there are No.4 MkII Singer made bayonets with the "G crown R" marking on the socket, I have one. It came out of a large box of otherwise unremarkable grease covered No.4 bayonets about 10 years ago. If I can talk my daughter into taking a picture I will post it. It is simply an early MkII. and was purchased with scabbard for $2.50, the same price as all the others in the box.

[tankhunter]

Ah but there are No.4 MkII Singer made bayonets with the "G crown R" marking on the socket, I have one. It came out of a large box of otherwise unremarkable grease covered No.4 bayonets about 10 years ago. If I can talk my daughter into taking a picture I will post it. It is simply an early MkII. and was purchased with scabbard for $2.50, the same price as all the others in the box.

Is that the variant with the LARGE Crown & cypher gew? I have never seen the LARGE crown on a MKII.

[Peter Laidler]

I've JUST spoken to Graham Priest and he's certainly NEVER seen ne. And he's seen a few bayonets......... Awaiting photo with baited breath GEW