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Another stupid thing done on some deacs is the grinding/milling away of some of the rails on the bottom slide. Obviously some one thought it would weaken the lower slide, however, its been machined to the same spec as the Mk3 lower slide, and that didn't cause any probs, so why bother!
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12-04-2010 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by
peregrinvs
Another example being the requirement to pin on flash-hiders, which aren't even part of the firing mechanism. There seem to be two factors: the published 1988 and 1995 deactivation specs, and changing opinions over time from the Proof Houses and Home Office on what the letter and spirit of the law is.
Mark
Yes, this has arrisen from the requirment to prevent barrel removal from certain types of Deacts. IE: Browning .30" Cal, MG34 & 42. It became apparant the SOME owners were unscrewing these flash hiders & simply smacking the muzzles hard on a bit of thick wood. This would result in shearing of any pins used to retain a barrel in a reciever & subsequent removal of the deactivated barrel. Then it has become slavishly unquestioned that all people deactivating guns for submission for Proof (Deact) Simply weld/pin flash hiders to ALL guns having them. It is easier & quicker in the long run & has become the accepted 'Norm'. How on earth this has a benifit to a Bren/Lmg, L1A1 SLR Rifle Etc is beyond me! It's extra & unessacary work that also spoil the lines of fine looking weapons. But as I have stated in a previous posts, It's THE Proof Master who has the final say on wether a weapon is passed or not!
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Originally Posted by
Brit plumber
Another stupid thing done on some deacs is the grinding/milling away of some of the rails on the bottom slide. Obviously some one thought it would weaken the lower slide, however, its been machined to the same spec as the Mk3 lower slide, and that didn't cause any probs, so why bother!
Because on all the major componants, the Proof house have laid down that you have to do SOMETHING to all the major assemblies. IE: Barrel, reciever, Working parts Etc. The slide machining farce is also added to later in cutting through the oval hole at the top of the slide for the body retaining pin to pass through. (I believe they have dropped the slide rail machining bit now) NEITHER of these two methods would affect a Bren/LMG from functioning! (but obviously, everything else done to the barrel & working parts dose!) IF you are familiar with the action of the mechanisem. The force on the slide rails is virtually nil. they are there to keep upper & Lower together. The pin at the rear upper is there to hold the whole gun together. The hole is oval to allow the reciever to recoil rearwards & strike the internal buffer mech contained in the slide. The hole being oval, allows this. When the internal spring in the buffer mech reasserts itself. It pushes the reciever forwards & is stopped by the body retaining pin from continuing forwards. Little stress is placed on the crosspin, so why cut through the oval hole. Because in the Proof houses opinion, you have weakened the buttslide. IE: You have done SOMETHING to weaken/Deact this componant.
You can easily 'test' this buffering action on your own Deact Bren by placing the butt on the floor. And gripping the barrel between the flashider & the gas block. Push down sharply & you will see the whole upper reciever & barrel move rearwards & then come back to 'Battery' when the internal buffer spring reasserts itself. Easy!........
Last edited by tankhunter; 12-05-2010 at 05:00 AM.
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BP, you said something about the rails being machined away on the Mk1 and 2 butt slide while deactivating that makes it similar to a bog standard UNdeactivated Mk3/L4 butt slide. The Mk3 butt slide is lighter but the lightening is achieved by reducing the height of the front to rear walls and not removing the rails - or am I thinking out of the box somewhere here?
As a matter of interest and on a similar subject, the original Mk4 gun (a lightened Mk2 don't forget.....) was going to have a butt slide that ended just forwards of the trigger guard. This was on the basis that anything forwards of that was pretty well surperflous (? spelling...). All it contained was the ejection opening cover that was hardly dust proof and the front tripod mounting pin. And there were no tripods in the jungle
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I can see how this has changed over time with my 4 Brens. The Inglis MkII was deactivated in 1991 and has a 'live' butt-slide. The Lithgow
MkI(m) was deactivated in the late 1990's and has both a cut through the body retaining pin hole and has the rails partially ground away. My Enfield MkI and Monotype MkII were both deactivated in the late 2000's and they have the cut through the pin hole, but the rails are left intact.
So here's a question: other than some old-spec open-bolt SMGs, what has actually been successfully criminally reactivated in the UK?
Mark
Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night;
God said "Let Newton be!" and all was light.
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Reactivated......... No Brens but several SMG's Some Brens have been THOUGHT to have been reactivated but investigations showed that they were cloned and ....I don't understand it either but.........
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Legacy Member
BP, you said something about the rails being machined away on the Mk1 and 2 butt slide while deactivating that makes it similar to a bog standard UNdeactivated Mk3/L4 butt slide. The Mk3 butt slide is lighter but the lightening is achieved by reducing the height of the front to rear walls and not removing the rails - or am I thinking out of the box somewhere here?
As a matter of interest and on a similar subject, the original Mk4 gun (a lightened Mk2 don't forget.....) was going to have a butt slide that ended just forwards of the trigger guard. This was on the basis that anything forwards of that was pretty well surperflous (? spelling...). All it contained was the ejection opening cover that was hardly dust proof and the front tripod mounting pin. And there were no tripods in the jungle
Hi Peter, These photos will probably explain things better.
Standard L4 with machined away rails.
Deactivated Mk1 slide, Rough / crap machining, unfinished surface.
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Well, I never realised that the L4 butt slides were machined away at the guide rails. What say you Tankie? I'll check up with all of ours first thing tomorrow! Thanks for that BP
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Contributing Member
Peter
We too have idiots making rules here as well.................
One question for you though. Wasn't there a time when UK deacts had removable barrels ? I seem to remember an old family friend who had one in his home where all that had been done (if I remember rightly) was the bolt face had been cut through with a grinder from left to right, so that the firing pin and extractor were destroyed along with a rod welded into the barrel. You could take the barrel off and see the rod welded from one end to the other.
Was this a one off or am I mistaken (it was back in the late 80's)
Gary
The greatest LMG to ever see service in the British Army...........................
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As I understand it, the first years worth weren't welded in place but thereafter, they were. But strangely, if it breaks free - by fair means of course - there is no lawful obligation to re-weld it back. In fact, some say that it would be unlawful for the owner to do so............................ Anyone out there in forumland UK care to comment or add further............
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