Why there aren't Japanese rifles among "favorite WWII rifles"?

[limpetmine]

My father, uncle and father in law all served in the WWII US Navy, Pacific Fleet. The J@@@ didn't fight in an honorable fashion, starting with the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor, followed on by the Bataan Death March, torpedoing of hospital ships, and the countless atrocities in the Philippines and mainland China. They fought with no quarter, and we learned to give none. As these raw memories fade with the passing of that generation, I suppose new collector interest will rise. I, for one, won't have any of it in my house.

[blackcat_attilio]

Oh, as someone from a "loser's country" I don't think it has much to do with anything! We'uns just lost a little further back in time...Besides, I don't recall Italy or France losing WWI, or Japan losing a war from 1905 until 1945, quite the opposite, in fact!

I agree with your words, jmoore

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

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My father, uncle and father in law all served in the WWII US Navy, Pacific Fleet. The J@@@ didn't fight in an honorable fashion, starting with the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor, followed on by the Bataan Death March, torpedoing of hospital ships, and the countless atrocities in the Philippines and mainland China. They fought with no quarter, and we learned to give none. As these raw memories fade with the passing of that generation, I suppose new collector interest will rise. I, for one, won't have any of it in my house.

That also coulda be a reason 'cause people "don't like" Japanese rifles. Anyway I belive we mustn't follow this thought line. Who in Europe would collect (have at home) any Mauser K98...? We must collect fireguns 'cause they have a history on thir background and compare their accuracy.
Many thanks for your opinion

[Aragorn243]

I am patiently trying to find a nice Japanese rifle to add to my collection but I doubt I would ever call one my "favorite". I don't believe they belong in the category of the French or Italian rifles by any means. With the exception of the last ditch rifles, the one's I've handled have been well built and they do not function so differently from other rifles that they stand apart from them.

I would surmise that the general lack of popularity has something to do with the prejudices of WWII lingering on after all these years. While anything German is looked upon almost automatically as being extremely well built, anything Japanese is looked upon as being a weak copy of something better that they couldn't come up with on their own. The US in general felt the same way about their aircraft and other weapons and were rather shocked when they kicked our collective butts the first year of the war.

I have a couple of issues with Italian and French rifles, the Italians being rather "toy like" to me except the earlier WWI vintages. The metal looks solid but the sights, stocks and magazine assemblies just really turn me off. The French guns are another matter altogether. I rarely see them for one thing and with each one I see, there is something more to dislike about them. No safety is a huge problem and the one sitting over at the local gun shop right now has a barrel so thin I'm amazed they don't blow up. The walls are about a thick as a shotgun barrel.

So while I eagerly look forward to adding a Japanese rifle to my collection, I'm really holding out for a WWI vintage Italian and whatever French rifle I end up with will probably just be there to look at, doubt I'd feel comfortable actually shooting one. And yes, I know they fought through one war and part of another with them but for me, that's not enough.

[Midmichigun]

I was always told that Jap is "junk". My Dad peed his pants when I bought one (Type 38). Nice shooting rifle! Some of my friends were/ are prejudiced against them... but no big deal. I have added some to my collection over the years... and yes... probably my most cherished and pretty "favorite" rifle is my wall hanger! Type 99 that was a Battle Field pickup from Okinawa. I won't shoot it due to the battle damage... but I am in awe of it! It was clearly used against our guys! Obviously we were in ferocious pitched battles with these guys!!!

On occasion I do shoot my 38's and 99's, and have never found issue with them! Won't shoot my last ditch rifle... just oggle the crudeness of it....

Another reason why I started collecting them, was due to the cost. At the time K98's were running big $$ (before all the recent RC's). The Japs were historical weapons of War, that were inexpensive, and due to start going up in price... and fine shooters!

[smac61]

My father, uncle and father in law all served in the WWII US Navy, Pacific Fleet. The J@@@ didn't fight in an honorable fashion, starting with the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor, followed on by the Bataan Death March, torpedoing of hospital ships, and the countless atrocities in the Philippines and mainland China. They fought with no quarter, and we learned to give none. As these raw memories fade with the passing of that generation, I suppose new collector interest will rise. I, for one, won't have any of it in my house.

I think this, at least in my experience.

[Surpmil]

Anyone who knows their history cannot hold one of those rifles or bayonets without wondering how many civilians were shot by it or spitted on it. They're FUGLY for the most part, but yes, they are damn well built as P.O. Ackley established. Same goes for the swords. You have to know the context.

A lot of superficial Western Walter Mitty's are quite taken with the aura of the swords, "bushido" and all that. Just as the same type are often quite taken with german uniforms etc. One can admire the workmanship, but let's not kid ourselves, the samurai were trained to total unquestioning obedience and a capacity for savage cruelty that would curl your ears; before they were sliced off. Their code bore no resemblance to the western code of chivalry. A lot of people have trouble encompassing the contradiction of their admiration for the workmanship and the diligence, and the reality of the behaviour and the racist, supremacist mentality that underlays it. Asian societies operate on "face" and shame basically. You didn't surrender because if you did, you could never return home, and if you were known to have surrendered or even been captured alive, the shame would probably force your family to kill themselves or disappear by moving somewhere where they were unknown. Those Japanese who did surrender or were captured were often quite happy to tell everything they knew to their captors once they had escaped the vise of Japanese society, but they often said that they could never return to Japan. Takes a little thinking about, doesn't it?

[blackcat_attilio]

Anyone who knows their history cannot hold one of those rifles or bayonets without wondering how many civilians were shot by it or spitted on it. They're FUGLY for the most part, but yes, they are damn well built as P.O. Ackley established. Same goes for the swords. You have to know the context.

Many thanks for your opinion. BTW, I agree with your words.

[riceone]

There were only about 1.2 million Japanese rifle brought to the US by returning Vets. The rest were thrown in the ocean. There never were stock piles in warehouse like the German and other military rifles. There fore they are getting scarcer and scarcer. However with the vets dying they are showing up.They are very well made rifle and did an excellent job for a bolt action rifle. The simplicity of the rifles make them ideal for combat. I have been collecting them for 60 years and still am. They have gotten quite expensive. I dickering with a guy now for a rifle that will cost at least $4k if I get it. The nice and rare ones are expensive. To me they were the best battle rifle of the bolt action clan.

riceone

[jmoore]

They are important to study if you have an interest in Allied arms of the period. Just part of "know your enemy", if nothing else.

A serious underestimation of the Germans and esp. the Japanese by the the Allies were part of the problem prior to WWII. Japan had more LMGs per capita than just about any other WWII army. Zero fighters. Far superior torpedos to the US. Hard training and years of combat experience in China. You don't have to like 'em, but...!

[blackcat_attilio]

There were only about 1.2 million Japanese rifle brought to the US by returning Vets. The rest were thrown in the ocean. There never were stock piles in warehouse like the German and other military rifles. There fore they are getting scarcer and scarcer. However with the vets dying they are showing up.They are very well made rifle and did an excellent job for a bolt action rifle. The simplicity of the rifles make them ideal for combat. I have been collecting them for 60 years and still am. They have gotten quite expensive. I dickering with a guy now for a rifle that will cost at least $4k if I get it. The nice and rare ones are expensive. To me they were the best battle rifle of the bolt action clan.

riceone

Hollo riceone !
Very interesting to understand more about why is not easy find out a Japanese rifle; meanwhile many thanks for your opinion about how they were/are made. Many thanks!