Why there aren't Japanese rifles among "favorite WWII rifles"?

[Aragorn243]

I don't think they are all that hard to find in the US. I see them all the time. Most have the mums ground off which reduces my interest in them. Other than that, they are often still in their original configuration. I've also found them to be inexpensive, less than $200 and often closer to $100 but again, ground mums. Sporterized versions are also around but these for the military collector are almost worthless and I've seen these sell for less than $100 as recently as this past fall.

[riceone]

Collectability and value is determined by condition, number made and how many are avaliable now or known to exist. For instance a Nagoya series 12 was made at the end of the war and has rough machinging and wood work but its value is close to $2000 because just a few were made and survived. Pictured below are two series 4 T99's, top rifle was made by Nagoya and bottom one was subcontracted out by Nagoya arsenal to Izawa Arsenal. Both look alike but the Izawa is worth about $1000 and the Nagoya around $500.

[blackcat_attilio]

I don't think they are all that hard to find in the US. I see them all the time. Most have the mums ground off which reduces my interest in them. Other than that, they are often still in their original configuration. I've also found them to be inexpensive, less than $200 and often closer to $100 but again, ground mums. Sporterized versions are also around but these for the military collector are almost worthless and I've seen these sell for less than $100 as recently as this past fall.

Hi Aragorn ! Many thanks for your opinion.
I only desire to say that: when I saw the first time (now) my Mosin M91/30 it had a lot of mud on the wood. I washed it, I oiled it and now I got a nice rifle (BTW it shoots pretty good!!!). Don't look at the paper, look at the candy... .

---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

Collectability and value is determined by condition, number made and how many are avaliable now or known to exist. For instance a Nagoya series 12 was made at the end of the war and has rough machinging and wood work but its value is close to $2000 because just a few were made and survived. Pictured below are two series 4 T99's, top rifle was made by Nagoya and bottom one was subcontracted out by Nagoya arsenal to Izawa Arsenal. Both look alike but the Izawa is worth about $1000 and the Nagoya around $500.

That's the main rule here also.
In Italy, i.e., a "business game" make Garand price to be over Euro 900.00. Why? Because here the arsenals are full up of Garands but Garands are not on sale.........

[jeep]

Nice rifles Riceone! Your are the man when it comes to japanese rifles and facts.

[PRWM1]

Most of the Japanese rifles that I've seen for sale are not in as good condition as other milsurps. It seems that so many of them were kept in the garage or wherever and not regularily cleaned, etc, and have rusted, frosted metal and bores. In the last year I've collected four rifles, however the one with the least "patina" is the one that was sporterized. This is another reason they aren't among the "favorite WWII rifles". So far I've abstained from loosing bigger money to get that more pristine rifle.

The T38 I recently purchased had so much hardened oil/grime that it was difficult to operate the bolt. It had not been cleaned since WWII! The bore is very dark, etc. It was difficult to clean - the hardened gunk appeared to be some sort of sealant at first glance. Also, so many of the rifles do not have matching bolts - its like they were thrown in a barrel when transported, and then randomly installed in the rifles.

It's time for the old negative attitudes that existed after the war to be torn down, and this is happening. I think the current growing interest in collecting Japanese rifles is symbolic of changing attitudes as well as wanting at least "one from every country". As different cultures communicate with each other many of the old extreme negative "ways" gradually change. If you follow post WWII history, you will find that many of the vets from both sides became friends.

One thing I can say about the T38 and T99 rifles - the bolts are a dream to disassemble and put back together! I think that the safety is OK.

The rifles show attention to detail. Probably the biggest negative is the extra "catch" or "hump" or whatever you call it in closing the bolt. Here the enfield is definitely more smooth. I did notice that the old worn T38 mentioned above has a relatively smooth closure compared to others.

[thumperpaul]

Japanese rifles are pretty hard to find here, in Western Canada. If you do find one, they are either outrageously expensive or dirt cheap. (because the seller has no knowledge of the rifles, or think they are junk). I walked away from gunshows with a battle scarred Tokyo Arsenal Type 38 for $160 and a minty Toyo Kogo Series 33 T 99 for only $100!
I'm an avid collector of MilSurp weapons, and I feel very fortunate to have scored these rifles.

[blackcat_attilio]

Most of the Japanese rifles that I've seen for sale are not in as good condition as other milsurps. It seems that so many of them were kept in the garage or wherever and not regularily cleaned, etc, and have rusted, frosted metal and bores. In the last year I've collected four rifles, however the one with the least "patina" is the one that was sporterized. This is another reason they aren't among the "favorite WWII rifles". So far I've abstained from loosing bigger money to get that more pristine rifle.

The T38 I recently purchased had so much hardened oil/grime that it was difficult to operate the bolt. It had not been cleaned since WWII! The bore is very dark, etc. It was difficult to clean - the hardened gunk appeared to be some sort of sealant at first glance. Also, so many of the rifles do not have matching bolts - its like they were thrown in a barrel when transported, and then randomly installed in the rifles.

It's time for the old negative attitudes that existed after the war to be torn down, and this is happening. I think the current growing interest in collecting Japanese rifles is symbolic of changing attitudes as well as wanting at least "one from every country". As different cultures communicate with each other many of the old extreme negative "ways" gradually change. If you follow post WWII history, you will find that many of the vets from both sides became friends.

One thing I can say about the T38 and T99 rifles - the bolts are a dream to disassemble and put back together! I think that the safety is OK.

The rifles show attention to detail. Probably the biggest negative is the extra "catch" or "hump" or whatever you call it in closing the bolt. Here the enfield is definitely more smooth. I did notice that the old worn T38 mentioned above has a relatively smooth closure compared to others.

Many thanks for your post
About what marked in red: I agree. I know about something happened here and it is not "the only" case.
I like the idea "one for every Country".... but I haven't so much money!

[lee sherman]

In July 2006 I bought an Arisaka Type 99 series 4 Nagoya [short] with all the early features, AA sights, monopod, chrome barrel, clean Mum, the works. I paid $365.00 with 110 rd. of ammo and dies. The rifle is mint except for one small dent in the forewood lower. It shoots flawlessly. Excellent bluing and furniture. I hate the Japs as much as anybody. For what they did to prisoners alone deserves literally sinking all their islands with whatever means is available!!. It was the first Mil-Surp rifle I ever bought. It created a landslide of WWII Mil-Surp purchases which has not ended to this day! I cherish the type for what it is and represents. WWII was global and this rifle took part in it. The Mum is intact so it still [technically] belongs to the Emperor. Sorry Hirohito, I have it and you don't. It is part of my collection, and I am the caretaker for now. In a way I love all these firearms as they all represent man's struggle for what they think is right, even if they are morally wrong!! That's my two cents.

[Old Joe]

Why I love the Type 38 Japanese rifle:

a) The Jap 6.5 mm cartridge is one of the most pleasant rounds you will ever squeeze off down range. Truly minimal recoil and a nice flat trajectory just make for a pleasant range experience.

b) Firing the 6.5 Jap is a great excuse to reload. Not only is reloading enjoyable but the time I spend in the cellar doing it away from my family is priceless.

c) A Jap Rifle is like a pricey lottery ticket. The varied armory markings and series, not to forget the Mum or scrapped Mum scenario, make them a bit more interesting to pick up and or research.

d) I can usually spend 150 bucks for a Jap rifle and blab knowingly about it at gun shows pretending to have far more useful knowledge than I actually have.

e) There are a lot of beautiful Japanese Sporters out there that gunsmiths have put a lot of work on in the 50's and 60's and are in some unique calibers. I consider these the Americana influence in my type 38 collection and you just cannot beat the price on them.

Of course the Japs were savages, fighting in the jungle sucked, and the rifle can be found in varying quality and workmanship. If you shoot what you collect you would probably have a incentive to grab one if you had the chance to fire a nice one before hand.

Old Joe

[riceone]

If you are interested in collecting Japanese rifle you would do well to purchase Fred Honeycutts book "Military Rifles of Japan" cost less than $50 shipped to you. Next join Banzia, a Japanese collector group and then get aquainted with anad make friends with a knowledged collector and he will help you find nice rifles and sometimes good deals. A $150 gun will be a $150 gun 20 years from now, but a nice matching with nice original finish on stock and metal will double in price about ever 10 years. I have paid too much at the time for some rifles but they have increased in value to over come that now. Its not an overnight project. roy