T S T V Mauser?

[Patrick Chadwick]

8.15x46R The correct (CIP) designation is 8.15x46R (Nominal) bullet diameter 8.15 mm (Nominal) case length 46 mm R = Rand (German for rimmed) But the following designations have been used in the past 8.15x46.5 R Jagdgewehr Normal 8.15 Frohn 8.15x46 R Frohn 8.15 Harstang 8.15x46 R Normal it's all the same!

That should read (Nominal) BORE = 8.15 mm
NOT BULLET

However, these size designations are always a bit odd. If you really want to know what the actual groove diameter is, I suggest you slug it.

All the reloading info I can find here points to 0.321" lead bullets (grease-groove or copper-plated) as the right kind of projectile. So 32-40 bullets will be fine.

But NOT hard-jacketed bullets - they are too hard to deform enough to fill the grooves - the 8,15x46R was concieved at the end of the black-powder era, and the groove depth is a hefty 8 thou, if the CIP data is to be believed. Another reason to slug the bore and measure what it actually is!

[DaveN]

Do you think this rifle would be suitable for insertion into Robert Balls book when the 5th edition comes out( I Hope a 5th) as it has a very interesting history from 1933-1945, is a variant of the Mauser and not something many know about?

[Patrick Chadwick]

Do you think this rifle would be suitable for insertion into Robert Balls book when the 5th edition comes out

Unfortunately, I do not think so. It is not a Mauser made for the military, but is really a civilian version. Hence the non-military chambering in the definitely target-shooter chambering of 8.15x46R. It is a bit of a "fringe" application. I think the man to ask is Jon Speed, who has probably done more work than any other on non-military "Mauserology". If anywhere, it would belong in his book on Sporting, Target and Training Rifles - maybe it is already, I do not have this book, it is VERY expensive over here.



---------- Post added at 02:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

The Speed book is apparently only about small-bore rifles, so that's not quite the right spot.

But the Wehrmannsgewehr is covered in the book by Ludwig Olson: "Mauser Bolt Rifles", which has a complete overview of Mausers of all shapes and sizes. I recommend that you get the Olson book!

Patrick

[jmoore]

That should read (Nominal) BORE = 8.15 mm NOT BULLET

Oddly, again, CotW specifies that the nominal bore was 0.316" and not the usual 0.318, 0.321", or 0.323" bores found on 8mm or 32 cal rifles. ???

Could you do a bore measurement for us, DaveN?

[Patrick Chadwick]

Well, I didn't want to confuse everybody with facts, but since jmoore has opened this can of worms, I'll do my best to catch the little beasts before they start wriggling all over the place.

The CIP bore data for the 8.15x46R read as follows.
G1 (diameter at start of throat) min 8.45 mm = 0.333"
Projectile max 8.38 mm = 0.329"

So the bullet fits into the throat. That sounds plausible so far.
- But then it gets downright peculiar.

Bore diameter min 7.60mm = 0.299
Groove diameter min 8.03 mm =0.316
- which is, of course, what COTW has written.

So a bullet that is THICKER than an 8x57IS bullet is supposed to be squeezed into a bore that is MUCH TIGHTER than the 8x57IS (8,20 groove/7,92bore,) tighter even than the 8x57I (8.07 groove/7.80 bore) as used for hunting rifles in Germany up to WWII. Not while I'm standing close to it, please

Sorry CIP, I just don't believe it!

I know I am going far out on a creaky limb here, but I think that there was a typo somewhere in the dim distant past, and since then everybody has been copying from the same faulty data sheet.

And if I have got it all dreadfully wrong, will someone please straighten me out!

Anyway, DaveN, now you know the ghastly details of why I seriously recommend that you only use lead bullets. As they say over and over again in the reloading manuals:

"Slug your bore and size accordingly"

- And I would be very interested to see what the actual groove/bore values are in your rifle!

Patrick

[DaveN]

I'll do my best, and thanks for all the useful info. I will ask my brother in law, he should know what you are talking about and maybe i'll get some hands on experience.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Just an update on the identification:

I finally got round to looking at my own copy of Olson.

DaveN; your rifle is exactly the same as the Wehrmannsgewehr shown on P239 of the 3rd Edition. Not a rebuild (those apparently had straight bolt handles), but newly made by Mauser 1935-9.

And thanks again to jmoore for giving me the absolutely correct T.St.V. tip!

Patrick

[DaveN]

Thanks again! I think I can get that book on amazon. It seems I have a collection of books as well as firearms.


I just checked Amazon. I can get a box of 20 8.15X46R for the price of the book. I'll take your word on page 239 for now.

[jmoore]

Whoops! Went and rechecked CotW- they list the BULLET diameter as 0.316" which I misremembered as a "bore" dia. (B is B...) No dimensions given for the lands and grooves. Regardless, it seems worth investigating.

[Patrick Chadwick]

DaveN, jmoore,

I think you now understand why I am bothered by the available data on the 8.15x46R chambering. This is a clear case where one should definitely not trust what one reads, but

"Slug your bore and size accordingly"

A Visier Special published 15 different loads for the 8.15x46R, all with a 0.321" copper-plated or grease-groove lead bullet. NO hard jackets!

If I can find any more practical info, I will post it here.

And a reloading tip for DaveN: If you do purchase a 20-pack of ready-loaded ammo, do not just fire them all off! Keep 2 back.

If the other 18 cartridges perform satisfactorily, then use the 2 reserves as follows: one you keep as a dimensional reference, to check overall length, neck diameter with bullet loaded, seating depth, crimp yes/no etc.

The second should be very carfeully weighed, and then dismantled. Weigh the bullet and the primed case. And the powder charge, if you can catch it cleanly when you pull the bullet. That way you have a good idea where to start. You will, of course, have to make you own informed guess as to the type of powder used. My guess is that it would be similar to what would be used for a 32-40.

I know that is all very approximate, but it gives you a starting point, and you can compare it with any published loads you can find.

Patrick