Bren compared to its contemporaries

[tankhunter]

. Just a thought but if barrel changes are a weakness, then just look at the next gun. One that still has no successor in sight after 45+ years in the front line. It still has a QCBarrel. Got it yet......... I COULD knock the Bren off the perch of being the longest serving bit of kit in the British Army............................. The FN MAG-58 GPMG. The L7A2.


Good try JM but there's just something about a Bren that still winds my clock up[/QUOTE]

Pete, Dont forget the Estwhile Browning M2 HB. 50" Cal, ALSO a contender for a Long serving MG in the British Army! Admittedly, ORIGINALY a quite long Barrel change & invloved process. But now with the intorduction of the MANROY mod of a QCB Feature. I can change them Barrels in 3 Secs!..................With the introduction of the QCB feature. ALL British .50" Cal's have now been modified to this configuration for Service.

[jmoore]

To clear up any possible mis-understanding, I think the Bren has a superb QC barrel system, it's the T99 that's a bit clunky, which may be why it used the finned bbls. It works, but is slow to do versus a Bren.

Realistically, they were all good! I'd rather have any than an M60, even with it's belt feed.

[Brian Dick]

I'll see what I can do. Maybe on the weekend.

[rayg]

The Johnson Light machine gun was the best. A 30 shot mag to the side, low profile, not under or above the gun. The mag could be reloaded while still in the gun from the oposite side either single rds or a 5 shot clip. Lighter then the other ones, and barrel can be changed in seconds if needed. Only 13 lbs. Any one who used it praised it. Ray

[jmoore]

The Johnson wasn't on the list of the Czech derivatives, but it is contemporary. Have not shot one, but I have had them apart. Would rate it most excellent in potential, but w/o trigger time...

So, have you any time behind one, rayg?

[MGMike]

I don't pretend to know what Hythe "told" ZB, but every ZB26 or 30 I have ever seen has an interrupted THREAD that cinches the barrel up tight when closed. To me that's not an issue. Weight could be, as the ZB guns are significantly lighter than Brens. That's not to say that the Bren is not a better gun for all-around military use, but that barrel thread feature does not prove it.

M

[MGMike]

The Johnson Light machine gun was the best. A 30 shot mag to the side, low profile, not under or above the gun. The mag could be reloaded while still in the gun from the oposite side either single rds or a 5 shot clip. Lighter then the other ones, and barrel can be changed in seconds if needed. Only 13 lbs. Any one who used it praised it. Ray

Please permit me to opine that the Johnson M1941 LMG is an unmitigated turd-- not a pimple on the buttplate of an M1918 BAR. It's ill-balanced, roughly-made ,with a violent action problematic in functioning, prone to horrible stoppages if not loaded/unloaded very precisely and has lousy sights and the world's worst bipod. The QC barrel is useless in the field, and you are lucky to fire a few magazines through it without something breaking or falling off. Did I leave anything out?

I say all this while owning good examples of both. There's simply no comparison.

M

[Peter Laidler]

Hi MG Mike, Peter here. Re the interrupted barrel and barrel nut threads. When I was reading this up in our old dusty trials reports I went and checked on the early trials guns and saw interrupted lugs but not in a thread form. So that the lugs would lock the barrel on OK but as they wore, the barrel would come loose - as they did on some of the trials. We wanted the lugs to form an interrupted THREAD that would both LOCK and draw the barrel to the rear AND tighten it.

I haven't got access to the early trials guns today but they and the reports confirm it. I'lll come back on Tuesday and send you a photo. Out on the ranges to watch some trials today!

Ooops, just realised that this was meant to be a PM to MGM!

---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

Just a simple thought on the Johnson MG but if it really was as good as it's been portrayed, then how come it wasn't still in front line active service until in the 90's............. as was the Bren (albeit in 7.62mm guise, but still a Bren.....)

[jmoore]

Re the M1941 Johnson, interesting input MGMike!

I've met a few owners, but they had no complaints, particularly. There were substantial changes made w/ the introduction of the M1944/5/DROR which mostly address the odd rear mounted bipod. Internally, they don't seem much different.

Still, isn't this a CZ derivative discussion? How do you compare the BAR to the top feeders? I am not a huge BAR fan, but don't dislike them either. (WWII version, I've no time behind the earlier BARs.)

---------- Post added at 05:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 AM ----------

"ETA": regardless of the Johnson's WWII exploits, it was produced in very small numbers, and realistically was onlt used by the US forces as a stopgap. (I believe they were originally mostly intended for the Dutch) Never really part of the "system". so, it's no wonder it quickly faded away. (Some parts do linger on- most notably the multi-lugged bolt idea adopted by Eugene Stoner.)

[arado]

The BAR was is a POS. Because it was used as a tactical equivalent against an MG42 or a Nambu light. 20 round magazine and fixed barrel could not compete. over whelming artillery and air power did untill Korea and Vietnam. Gary