US Marked Mod 12 Info

[classicrs]

Hi...first time post here. I have this Mod 12 that belonged to a late friend. I plan on selling it for his widow.

Any info regarding value, history would be appreciated!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Tom Doniphon]

Is the serial number in the 920,xxx range?

There have been a few of these Model 12 shotguns in that serial number range that have surfaced recently with that same "US" only mark on the receiver as well as the open flame ordnance bomb on the barrel and the WB cartouched buttstock. They might be an early WW2 variant that little is known about. Most of the other ones I have seen were long barreled shotguns.

[nhetzer]

There are two trench guns on Gunbroker right now, actual bids are $3,000 on one and a little over on the the other. I can't see the bottom of the barrel from the pics but if there are three grooves cut on the bottom of the barrel it is a trench gun, without the heat shield/bayonet lug. If there are no grooves then it is a riot gun. I also do not see a sling swivel on the stock which would also be indicative of a riot gun. Riots bring much less than trench guns but the good news is that you have a Model 12 here. An early one at that. Model 12's and Winchester Model 97's are two of the most collectible shotguns on the market.
As for a concrete value, that's the tricky part about something like this. An auction is always your best bet because as with anything historical, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it on any given day. You can have three of these lined up side by side and various factors will cause them all to have vastly different values. Take a little time to learn about the legalities of shipping and selling this shotgun and put it on one of the auction websites with a reserve that you're comfortable with. It may be "worth" $2,000 but if you don't have a buyer for it then it can be worth that all day long and you'll still have it. Look around on line at the various auction websites for guns. Check the "closed auctions" to see what they actually sold for, not what guys were asking for them. That should give you an idea of where to start that's realistic. Stay away from "blue book" values as the book itself says that prices for military firearms all vary upon a fluctuating market. Unscrupulous buyers will attempt to use the method of quoting the blue book to try to get the gun for less than it's actually worth. Condition is expected to be a little worn on a true military weapon, so don't let that throw you off too much either. Some people only want "museum grade" pieces. But let's be honest. It was a war, these were used on a battlefield to kill people. The history makes them collectible. They say "condition is everything" and that is certainly true but only to a point. It is not as much of an issue if the item is collectable or rare enough enough. Sorry for the long response, hope this was somewhat helpful.

[classicrs]

Serial is 926XXX....

There are no grooves under the barrel and it measures 20-20.5 in or so.

[John Ed]

Looks like you have a Early or Pre WWII model 12 riot. I have S/N 92687X with the same markings.

You may want to scroll down and read the thread on Winchester Model 12 Navy .... .

Thanks to this forum there have been several of these come to light. I believe this is only the second riot gun to be reported as the others were long barrel trainers.

As far as price goes I have not seen a sale since these have come to light.. So it will be anybodys best guess. However I believe these type markings are uncommon.

Best of Luck
John Ed

[Tom Doniphon]

Can you guys with these guns confirm whether or not the "US" mark on the receiver was stamped before or after finish? Looks like after.

[classicrs]

Well since I need to sell this one, I plan on listing it on Gunbroker or such.

I think I remember my late friend saying that the markings were odd as well as the barell, and thus a bit rare.

Wonder what starting price I should go with?

[John Ed]

Tom,

I would have to agree. Mine looks to be marked after finishing.

[Texwing]

Tom, this is Jerry aka Texwing, i started that Model 12 navy thread a while back, mine seems to have been marked after it was finished, I say that because the bluing does not seem to be present in the grooves of the US marks.

[Viper225]

Classicrs
If you would e-mail John Ed, Texwing or I with a complete Serial Number on her gun. We need to catalog all of these guns.
It might not hurt to keep track of where it goes either. I believe this one makes only 6 of the 1941 Pre Pearl Harbor M12's that have been located to date. We ALL do not need to loose track of any of them. These could very well be the rarest Military Model 12's in existance.

We can inturn supply you with information on all of them as we get it.

Viper225 Full Choke 28" Trainer SER 92635X
Texwing Full Choke 28" Trainer SER 92642X
John Ed 20" Riot SER 92687X
Classicrs 20" Riot SER 926XXX (Still need information on gun & owner)
Jackmorse 28" Full Choke Trainer SER 92715X (Still need info on this gun & owner)
LongColt44 28" Full Choke Trainer SER 9291XX (Still need info on this gun & owner)

My e-mail: roachw@wildblue.net