Irwin-pedersen

[Ernie]

Is serial 1771588. She has a Rock Ola 1-43 barrel. If you need other info please let me know and I can send a copy of my data sheet to you. Also has a flaming bomb on the receiver heal. Its a very nice piece with the original IP marked stock.

[Mikey51]

Chris, #1771994 has a 2/43 Rock-Ola barrel. The Club has a data sheet on it. Dave, I take your point, if I can figure out or learn anything helpful I'll be in touch.
That marking on yours sounds like one I have been trying to figure out for about five years, the mysterious backwards Z in exactly the same place !. No luck yet !. Mike.

[Newscotlander]

Thank you John, Ernie, and Mike.

Could it be possible that a certain number of Irwin-Pedersen marked receivers were actually made by Saginaw after the April 1st, 1943 takeover?

[painter777]

I believe that has a high probability. As any uncompleted work by the IP partnership would have been taken over by Saginaw Steering Gear.

Charlie

[Bruce McAskill]

Chris, If S'G' had 30,000 plus receivers already made by IP in both of the serial number blocks assigned to IP, then why would they need receivers so early on as it took them about three months production to use up the IP receivers they had on hand. Then there is the question of S.G. being able to make enough receivers for themselves as well as the contract for Inland having enough production to send receivers to S'G' about July 1943. Just thinking out loud here. I have IP # 1773553 with a 1-43 Underwood barrel on it if that helps.

[Newscotlander]

When Saginaw took over the Grand Rapids plant on April 1st here are three questions.

1. Regardless of how many I-P made receivers were on hand, would Saginaw have started making their own right away? I think that they would have.

2. If they didn't have the SAGINAW S'G' stamp for the receiver already made up, what would they have stamped on the receiver? I think they would have used the IRWIN-PEDERSEN stamp.

3. Where does it say that there were 30,000 receivers on hand when Saginaw took over? My thoughts are that there was much less.

I'm thinking that Irwin-Pedersen had only used up about 15,000 serial numbers by the time that Saginaw took over. Who knows how much of that was waste? I'm sure that Saginaw assembled or re-worked some carbines with Irwin-Pedersen made receivers.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[Mike Henning]

Chris

Just a quick addition to correct my previous note.

My BTW referred to MY IP. oops

Mike

[Mikey51]

This is a good thread. I'm thinking like this ..

1. Some, although very few, all I.P part Carbines, can be found. They have no Cartouches,
which seems to fit the evidence that none were ever accepted for military service.

2. I cannot see how S'G' would let such a Carbine pass through their hands without placing
S'G' on it somewhere.

3. On the evidence I have available to me, most I.P Carbines with a mixture of I.P and S'G'
parts do have a Cartouche and were accepted for service.

4. So .... the big question for me is how did some of these all I.P part guns, which were not
accepted, get into circulation ??

If I havn't explained myself well, I'll try again tomorrow ! Mike.Attachment 21188

[usgicollector]

Mike,
The IP Ernie has is an all IP gun with only an IP in Box and crossed cannons on the stock . He got it from an old man in Montana along with a S'G'. I am good friends with him and have seen the gun and inspected it in person. It is super nice. I will call him and see if he will post some pics.
Dave

[Bruce McAskill]

Chris, There is no doubt that S'G' went back and used serial numbers off of bad IP receivers but these seem to show up about July/August 1943 judging by the barrel dates I have seen. I am sure that S'G' had new stamps made ASAP including the receiver stamp. The known IP marked receivers span from 1.76 to 1.87 range and if only a third were made that would be over 30K and plus the ones in the 3.2 range that are IP marked. But Doerfner did not have the time to wait for S'G' marked receivers as he was being pressured by the Army to start producing or else. But looking at how many IP stamp receivers have been showing up just at CMP auctions it would seem that the 30K+ to 38K figures in some publications for IP made receivers might be pretty close to the amount made and used by S'G'. But I would ask if S'G' were to get receivers from S.G.,wouldn't they be marked as the Inlands were on the left side with an S.G. stamp?