+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: South African No.4's ?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member Rumpelhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last On
    12-29-2022 @ 09:35 PM
    Location
    U.S. Maine
    Age
    64
    Posts
    411
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    08:40 AM

    South African No.4's ?

    I've noticed that a lot of the No.4 rifles shone here that were in service in South Africa were Long Branch. This kind of stuck out to me because mine also was in South Africa at some point.
    It also appears that they are in slightly better condition than others.
    Are these just coincidence or is there a specific reason for this.
    is is all just to satisfy the curiosity of an Enfield noob.
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Chuck in Denver ... Buy-Sell-Trade .. Guns, Cars Motorcycles Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Deceased January 15th, 2016 Beerhunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last On
    01-02-2016 @ 05:03 PM
    Location
    Hampshire, England
    Posts
    1,181
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    01:40 PM
    It has been my experience that the South Africans looked after their kit extremely well.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Advisory Panel Thunderbox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last On
    01-10-2022 @ 03:07 PM
    Posts
    1,150
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    01:40 PM
    Many of the rifles coming out of South Africa are mint or unused - I think they're simply unused rifles from reserve stocks. There seem to be two major types: Long Branch rifles in new condition, and 1949/50 Fazakerley late Mk1s and early Mk2s, in new and used condition.

    Long Branch and Savage rifles are commonly found in Commonwealth countries because of the way WW2 finished up. UKicon probably had a huge pile of unused Savage rifles, as these would have arrived slightly later than the UK production rifles, and the rifle requirement had dropped significantly with the advent of the Sten gun in its millions. The Canadian army substantially demobilised whilst it was in Europe. The Canadians appear to have sent the demobbed soldiers home, but left the equipment for UK to distribute amongst the liberated European countries. Obviously made no sense to ship stuff to Canadaicon that would never be used in the small post-war defence forces. Thus Long Branch rifles seem to turn up in European countries - Greece, Italyicon, France, Belgiumicon, Netherlands, etc - whilst Savage rifles seem to have been shipped to overseas recipients - India, Africa, Middle East, etc.

  6. #4
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 04:09 PM
    Location
    Edgefield, SC USA
    Posts
    3,928
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    08:40 AM
    I had 400 South African "Reserve War Stores" rifles as surplused and imported by Interarms to the USAicon in the late 1980's, early 1990's. There were many Savage rifles present. Some in newish condition but not that many of Long Branch manufacture. The majority were late 1947-49 dated Fazakerley Mk.1 production and some very early Mk.2's dated 1949-50. I still have a small handfull left, about 10 or so, all Faz production. Most need of minor repairs or replacement wood. I'll get them done eventually and out for sale.

  7. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Brian Dick For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Moderator
    (Milsurp Forums)


    Amatikulu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last On
    01-24-2023 @ 12:13 PM
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,282
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    08:40 AM
    From my memory of my years in South Africa, when the R4 (5.56mm) became general issue, around 1985, the R1's (FN FAL's) were sent to War Reserve over a period of several years. The Lee Enfield 303's came out of war reserve around 1993 along with Enfield and Webley revolvers and were sold to current and ex servicemen of the South African Defence Force for very reasonable prices. The condition of the rifles was as you'd expect, either brand new or fully refurbished.

  9. #6
    Legacy Member Rumpelhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last On
    12-29-2022 @ 09:35 PM
    Location
    U.S. Maine
    Age
    64
    Posts
    411
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    08:40 AM
    Thread Starter
    So was my 1941 Long Branch likely in service with Canadaicon at first? It was in South Africa in 1961 because it was re barreled there in that year.

  10. #7
    Advisory Panel Thunderbox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last On
    01-10-2022 @ 03:07 PM
    Posts
    1,150
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    01:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpelhardt View Post
    So was my 1941 Long Branch likely in service with Canadaicon at first? It was in South Africa in 1961 because it was re barreled there in that year.
    Canada had a maximum of about 500,000 serving in the Army at any one time (although about 750,00 passed through the ranks) and yet made over 1 million No4s. Hence there may have been hundreds of thousands of rifles unused at the end of the war, which were then redistributed. Hard to tell whether any particular rifle served, unless it has picked up enough marks.

    Many of the Long Branches coming out of South Africa have been centre-bedded as SRb rifles, yet unused. The last three I've had were completely mint, yet had new South African-marked barrels fitted anyway. All of these rifles have been "15L" range for some reason - obviously all came out of the same box from the factory.


  11. #8
    Legacy Member Rumpelhardt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last On
    12-29-2022 @ 09:35 PM
    Location
    U.S. Maine
    Age
    64
    Posts
    411
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    08:40 AM
    Thread Starter
    This was taken before I straitened out Bubba's mess but the U arrow is there though some what degraded by the polishing and covered by some unknown substance.

    Could you tell me what these numbers represent?

    And before I forget again Thank you all for your time.
    Last edited by Rumpelhardt; 03-14-2011 at 09:16 PM.

  12. #9
    Legacy Member FlightRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last On
    01-30-2023 @ 09:37 AM
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    140
    Local Date
    02-03-2023
    Local Time
    09:40 AM

    Longbranch No4 Mk1* South African target rifle with DOW 59 5C sight

    Good Day All,
    I purchased my Longbranch No4 Mk1* South African target rifle rifle when I was stationed in the UKicon in 2011. The trade dealer had recently brought it in directly from the family that owned it South Africa since the late 1950's. It sports a D.O.W 59 5C rear sight and is serialized with the production number "YW". The 6-hole eyepiece is also marked DOW
    The rifle was made in 1942 but later was center bedded and has a South African barrel dated 7 64. The receiver bridge is marked with the Union of South Africa property mark, but there is no "sold out of service" style marking. Besides the barrel and target sight, the other rifle parts appear to be of Longbranch manufacture.
    Regards,
    Michael










  13. Thank You to FlightRN For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. South African 7,7x56R (.303)
    By GBinSC in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-20-2010, 05:10 PM
  2. south african smle
    By smle13 in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-23-2010, 03:51 PM
  3. South African No. 4 Mk I
    By Pattern14 in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-21-2009, 01:36 PM
  4. Price of South African 7.62....
    By hollyfaith1 in forum The Watering Hole OT (Off Topic) Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-29-2009, 11:14 AM
  5. South African ball
    By sdh1911 in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-15-2007, 04:31 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts