Carcano Carabine with folding bayonet

[Aragorn243]

I've been wanting a Carcano for a while for my WWII collection, just havn't found one I was impressed with.

Just spotted one in my local gun shop that I could get for $229 which is in pretty rough condition. As far as I can tell, everything is there, everything functions, the finish has some surface rust but no pitting I can see. The stock is filthy but markings are intact. It has the older style rear sight meaning it's adjustable. If I read the date correct and not sure I did it was a 1936 production. I say that because I'm not sure it is the date stamp. Serial on receiver matches that of the stock but I could find no other numbers that looked like serial numbers or partial numbers anywhere else on the rifle and I think these should be on the bolt somewhere at least. Stock does have two small cracks, one on the upper handguard where the sight flips down into it, the other where it looked like the wood lifted when someone unscrewed and removed the butt stock sling attachment.

As I love cleaning up the beat up rifles, this would fit my "likes" but the price seems pretty high for a carcano. The bore looks great by the way, crisp rifling and clean with no pitting that I can see. Trigger is also very crisp. This is also the first carbine with the folding bayonet I've seen and am wondering if that is why the price is as high as it is. No import marks either.

Can't get pics, I did look on gun broker for some ideas of values and this seems in the ballpark with some lower, some higher.

Any opinions would be welcomed

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[jmoore]

I think I'd get it.

BTW, Bolts often aren't numbered, so no drama there..

[Aragorn243]

After looking into it some more I believe it to be an 1891 cavalry carbine. It is the spike type bayonet, not the blade type.

[jmoore]

Like this, but adjustable sights, and maybe a faceted barrel shank?



Not as accurate, from my very limited experience, but still worth having. They have kinda cute little actions. And a nifty decocker. (AKA a safety, but it really does take the tension off the mainspring.)

[Aragorn243]

Yes, that's it only with the adjustable rear sight. Stock is dried out, dirty. Action well oiled but looks like it was kept that way rather than used to break it loose. Bore is shiny, action smooth, metal with surface rust. In other words, doesn't look anywhere near as nice as the one on the photo but appears to be fully functional. Tried the safety, took me a few minutes to figure it out but it works. Bayonet works, I thought it might be upside down as it does not extend parallel to the barrel but I saw a photo that showed one the same way. Another photo showed it parallel. Didn't appear to be bent. Other side of the stock had the serial number and maybe midway up the buttstock a small cartouche which I believe is the manufacturer's mark. Barrel also marked but I don't remember if it was a Brescia or Terni. I think steel wool will clean off the surface rust and it didn't look pitted anywhere but it could be. I'll probably look it over again tomorrow. Anything special I should look for?

The butt stock crack should be easy to fix, not so sure about the hand guard crack. It's not widely separated but just due to the thickness of the wood where it is cracked I don't know how well the glue would hold.

Trying to get the wife to Ok it. I just bought a 91/30 on Sunday and while it was dirt cheap, it was still a new gun as far as she's concerned and they are all the same. She knows I've been looking for an Italian and a Japanese rifle for a while but...........even worse, tomorrow is her birthday. Bad timing all around.

[Patrick Chadwick]

... the price seems pretty high for a carcano.

It most certainly is.

As I love cleaning up the beat up rifles, this would fit my "likes" ...

So do I, but I only pay wall-hanger prices for them, unless they have some exceptional quality. I'm not just shooting my mouth off to impress you either. My "Roma" - a beautiful 91/41 that must have been a parade rifle, and has featured on these pages, cost me a 2-figure price in euros.

An example of "exceptional quality" for me would be if you can try it out beforehand and it turns out to be a very good shooter.

Otherwise, be very sober and buy what you see in front of you, not what you think you could turn it into - I have to keep telling myself that!

Patrick


P.S. If your heart does defeat your wallet, and you get it, post pics of the markings and I will check them out

[Aragorn243]

Patrick,

My heart is saying buy it. My wife is saying don't buy it, my brain is saying don't buy it and my wallet is saying don't buy it.

Like you said, I like fixing them up but if I'm fixing them up I should be paying a lower price for them to bring them into the condition they may later be worth. I don't see this one gaining me anything for the effort other than personal satisfaction. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm going to look at it a bit closer today but probably won't get it, I doubt anyone is going to make a mad dash there to grab it anytime soon. This guy has a bunch of surplus rifles that just sit there for ages, mostly because they have all been chopped up a bit or they are priced pretty high as in the case of a group of mausers.

He has a really nice Siamese mauser there for a little over $100 but when you turn it around to check the receiver, someone ground and chopped it all up. Markings are gone, etc. Looks like someone welded a scope mount on to it after they ground it down so it would fit. Nice condition metal wise Arisaka with a chrome bore but a hacked off stock. 1917 that both the metal and wood have been chopped. Jungle carbine that they hack sawed the flash suppressor off. Odd thing is, he also has a mock jungle carbine made out of a #4 that I suggested he swap the flash suppressors with but he never did. A second Siamese mauser is there that is claimed to be a prop from the movie Samarai with Tom Cruise. He's asking $450 for that one. It's a weird collection of odds and ends. Mitchel's Mauser's is even represented with a Yugo that is actually priced cheap for a Mitchel, I guess he isn't impressed with them either.

[jmoore]

Don't buy it if it won't make YOU happy (and that includes keeping your wife happy, too!). If you like rescues, then that rifle may be just fine. I haven't seen any reasonably "rescue-able" or nice Carcanos for a good price in 5-6 years. Junkers seem to be US$100+ any more. This one seems "un-Bubba'd", matching and with a good bore, just a bit grungy.

I've been looking for an 1891 rifle in good nick for 15 years or so- But I don't do internet sales much at all- Hands-on is the only way I feel comfortable buying old milsurps. And paying a slight premiun to a shop I don't frequent regularly seems worth the comfort in knowing there will be no surprises.

[Aragorn243]

Well..........I went to look at it. I spent a lot of time looking at it. Wrote down all the markings etc. Shop owner comes up behind me and says he'll make me a deal on it. I did have reluctant permission from the wife to "Go ahead, I know you will anyway". The rifle is marked $249.95 but he had a sign knocking $20 off of the milsurps. He said he had several guys tell him it was too much for the condition so I asked how much, he said $175.00. I figured "take a chance," countered $160.00, and I came home with it. It is rough but I'll get some photos later and post them if someone will direct me to the right forum for Carcano's.

It is a Turni, round barrel shank 36-XIV, has a 12 inside a circle stamped on the butt stock close to or part of the wrist. There is a 15 inside a circle on the bolt. Barrel also has what appears to be an AT stamped on it that is partially obscured by the wood and a few other non-letter markings near the wood line. Bayonet is marked F90.

I figure for $160 it's worth fixing up for me. Hopefully the metal will clean up and still have a bit of finish on it.

[Aragorn243]

Did some preliminary scratching of the rust and it's coming off without leaving pitting and most of the finish intact. There is one area on the magazine that does have some pitting.