M1 Carbine hunt loads

[TDH]

Just my humble opinion but I don't beleive the .30 carbine is a good choice for deer sized animals. If your brush is as thick as you say it is you might be better off using a revolver if they are legal for you to use. .357 as a minimum calibre

[Darkwolfe]

Just my humble opinion but I don't beleive the .30 carbine is a good choice for deer sized animals. If your brush is as thick as you say it is you might be better off using a revolver if they are legal for you to use. .357 as a minimum calibre

If the newbie's opinion is worth anything, I have to second TDH's remark. .30 is a reasonably decent small game round, but you might loose a deer in the woods before it bleeds out enough to drop. Don't try it on the big wild hogs at all, just makes 'em mad like the .223 does. Small javelina would be ok though.

[vintage hunter]

Good thing the several hundred head of deer and ''big wild hogs'' I've put down with the .30 carbine and/or .223/5.56 did'nt know it was'nt supposed to kill them or they might notta been so willing to fall over dead. Any rifle designed to kill a human being will be just as effective at killing big game. W.D.M. '' Karamojo'' Bell took the better part of 1000 ELEPHANTS with a 7x57 mauser(a.k.a. .275 Rigby) and a 6.5x54 mannlicher-schoenauer, he suceeded only because he got in close and put the bullet in just the right spot.

[Darkwolfe]

Heh, now don't think I'm picking at you VH, cause I'm not. But I gotta tell a little story on my brother in law and his little brother. Both decent (but not expert) shots. They went hog hunting in northern Arkansas last summer. Little bro was carrying an AR-15 in .223 and big bro was carting along a 30-30 Winchester lever gun. They found the hog they wanted, a couple hundred bacons of bacon in action. Little bro sets up a shot with the .223 and the hog just gets madder 'n a wet hen and charges. When the confusion and "holy $***!" moments were over, the pig had 6 .223 wounds in its head and shoulders, plus the first one in the side. It had 2 30-30 holes in it, the last one fired at a range of about 10 feet and the shot that brought it down.

The guys swore off hunting hogs with anything less than a .30 round after that.

I guess they could've had crap ammo in the .223, but it does make you wonder. Ah well. That being said, everybody has their favorite calibers and skills to go with them. The ones you like are generally the ones you're really good with.

[rondog]

Like they said, placement is everything.

[TDH]

Now there is something I really wouldn't want to try unless I absolutely have to. Necessity is the mother of of almost all "OH S**T" moments.
Meeting bears in thier back yard while inadequetly armed is an intresting experience.

[Aragorn243]

Personal opinion and take is as you may, the 30 carbine is too light a round for deer hunting. If you're a good shot and the range is short, it will work but it would not be my top choice by any means.

The 30 Carbine is not legal in the state of Pennsylvania not for the size but because semi-autos are not allowed for hunting in the state.

Much of the damage done in killing a deer is done by the shock caused by the bullets impact. A smaller caliber rifle with higher velocity will perform very well where a larger caliber with lower velocity will not. In areas in my state where urban areas mix too much with the wooded areas, they require slugs and in heavy brush, that's one thing that isn't going to be easily turned away.

[TDH]

And the cartridge that has killed more deer than any other? (drum roll please) the .22 long rifle. I'm not saying it won't work. I'm saying it's not my cup of tea. Like hunting bear with a .30 carbine. Not my cup of tea. As I have gotten older I have learned that there are certain things to avoid to live a slightly less pain free life. Hunting bears with a underpowered rifle is one. Just like swimming in shark or pirahnna infested waters or jump off bridges wearing a rubber band around your ankle or jumping out of perfectly good aircraft. It may not be as exciting but it sure hurts a lot less.
Aragorn a slug can be deflected by even the smallest of twigs. Even the slightest deflection at point if impact can cause a miss at 100 yards. And that's not saying it won't be deflected again.

[vintage hunter]

And if the shock caused by a projectiles impact was the decisive factor in killing game then archery would be very ineffective. Arrows and spears have killed more game than firearms ever will.

[Aragorn243]

And if the shock caused by a projectiles impact was the decisive factor in killing game then archery would be very ineffective. Arrows and spears have killed more game than firearms ever will.

Compared to hunting with a firearm, archery is very ineffective.

As for arrows and spears killing more game than firearms ever will, I'd love to see the source material for that because I doubt it is correct. Pennsylvania alone accounts for 1 million deer killed by firearms every year and they are not the top state for deer killed in the nation. The great extinctions did not occur from animals being killed off by arrows and spears but with firearms. What you obviously have to take into consideration is the thousands of years of a very tiny population using arrows or spears vs the hundreds of years of massive populations using firearms. Which would offset the other is more than I can figure on my own.

Many military arms are designed not to kill but to wound. Now I understand this may sound strange but a wounded many takes 3 out of the battle where a dead one only takes out one. The others are required to remove the wounded man from the battlefield and care for him afterwards. The 30 carbine was not designed as a "killing" caliber. It was designed to provide those in leadership positions or other specialty positions a smaller, lighter weapon for self protection, not offensive operations. It was better than the pistol but not nearly as good as the combat rifle. The 30 carbine also proved to be a very ineffective weapon against the Chinese in North Korea during winter operations. It did not have the penetrating power to go through their heavy clothing.

I would also question the 22 long rifle claim. It is the most common caliber used for poaching as it is quiet and in the act of poaching you have the deer standing there staring directly at the light as the person shoots it between the eyes. It is not the same as shooting at a moving deer in the woods. But to poachers account for more deer than legal hunters, doubtful.

Back to the wounding vs killing aspect. FMJ bullets are required by the Geneva Conventions while they are typically illegal for hunting. They do not expand, they create a very narrow wound channel through the body and if they do not strike a hard substance such as bone or a vital organ, the person stands a good chance of survival if he gets prompt medical attention. An expanding hunting round on the other hand creates a massive shock wound the farther it penetrates as it expands on impact to about 5 or 6 times it's actual caliber and the expansion slows the bullet transferring the energy into the soft tissue which often destroys it without coming into contact with it.

If a person is skilled enough or patient enough to use any type weapon for hunting whether it be a bow, a small caliber rifle or a handgun, that's great. But that same individual should not state that the specific weapon is fine in the hands of the average individual when it would not be. While the 30 Carbine may be adequate for killing deer, it is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination.