Part of Robert Etherington's collection to be auctioned

[newbieDAN]

not telling

[Badger]

Back in 2006, one of the primary goals of establishing this site, was to give the average milsurp collector a place to go and using an on-line MKL, compare various wood and metal markings through high resolution close-up digital pictures, as well as other relevant details, in regards to a piece that they may be looking at buying, or validating the correctness of one they've perhaps already purchased.

As you all know, the content is constantly vetted and maintained by an Advisory Panel of current members, all of whom have become recognized as having an extensive and broad milsurp knowledge base of experience, regarding various collectible areas and genres.

In keeping with that mandate to help perhaps less experienced members ensure they don't acquire a piece that by accident or design is possibly misrepresented, we attempt to post feedback on both public auctions and private sales, particularly of very expensive pieces such as this Australian auction house is representing.

Not everyone wants to post their feedback in a public spotlight, but in an attempt to help they do want their opinion to get out to members who may be considering bidding on premium auctions such as this.

We received an analysis from a member who wishes to remain anonymous and for the benefit of the membership and on their behalf, we publish it "unedited" below.

We've also moved this thread to the Commercial Auction and Sale "Gossip" forum where it probably fits the forum topical matter more, however, we'll maintain a permanent "moved" redirection link here in the Lee Enfield forums as it's highly relevant here as well.

Regards,
Doug

Caveat emptor fellow collectors.

Based on the description and photo’s provided 5 out of 9 of Robert’s No. 4 T’s appear fishy, unless you are there in person I would avoid them.

Lot 525 
EXTREMELY SCARCE B.S.A. NO.4 MK.I L8T TRIALS RIFLE: 7.62 Nato; 10 shot; 25.2" barrel; mint bore; black paint, military finish; action rail marked NO.4 MK.I T & V.37975; butt socket marked M47C 1945 V.37975; magazine marked CR 141A & lifter marked TEL STG NO.32 MK.III, OS 2039 A, AK & S NO.28393; mount marked V.37975 & rings marked 657 & 658 & painted XS; exc full wood, butt marked 28393, with cheek piece. This rifle is in unissued cond. #V37975 $7000 – 9000

A Trials Rifle without any nomenclature of 7.62 conversion or pressure proofing?? Most likely is a ex-Charwood barrel with a modified extractor and magazine.

Lot 526 
ENFIELD SNIPER RIFLE NO.4 MK.1 T: .303; 10 shot; 25.2" barrel; mint bore; black painted military finish to metal; action rail marked (RFT) 48 with other illegible markings & T 36534; scope marked 32 NK 2/1 OS 400 GA 11345; mount marked T 36534 & rings marked 350 & 351; correct leather lense cover marked 36534 & V5 OS 12419 & red W; exc full wood with 11345 to butt; cheek piece & brass butt plate stamped B COY; butt also marked 43, CWA, 9, 68; all correct & in unissued cond with scope in tin box. #T36534 L/R $7000 – 9000

After looking at the pictures. The “T” stamp is slightly unusual and there is no TR under the safety plus a Fazakerly FTR in ’48?? Rear pad has some filing and the scope case needs no explaination.

Attachment 22281Attachment 22282 Attachment 22283Attachment 22284


Lot 527 
SAVAGE NO.4 MK.I T SNIPER RIFLE: 303; 10 shot; 25.2" barrel; mint bore; black painted military finish to metal; action rail marked S NO.4 MK.I T 1941; scope marked TEL SIGHTING NO.32 MK.I 1943 NO 14275; mount marked N.92 & C38549; rings marked W217 & W218; with correct leather cover; exc full wood with grooved top wood; butt marked 14275; cheek piece fitted; receiver ring & bolt numbered OC614; in unissued cond.#OC614 L/R $7000 – 9000

Rifle and scope “match” but mount does not???????

Lot 529 
B.S.A. NO.4 MK 1/2 T SNIPER RIFLE: 303; 10 shot; 25.2: barrel; mint bore; black painted military finish to metal; action rail marked NO.4 MK 1/2; butt socket marked F.R. 1963 R.F.I.; scope marked TEL STG NO.32 MK.2 VIC OS 466A (crossed out) 165? no.104 á; mount has F3 1556 & AM 3961 (crossed out), A0539 T D.F. & J.C.; rings numbered 73& 74; scope also stamped F.R. 8.51; vg wood with grooved top wood; butt numbered 11489 (old) & 10066 (new); cheek piece; brass butt plate with an inlet wood repair to heel; SáA over 1 to rhs of butt with some other illegible markings; exc wo & cond. #A0539T L/R $7000 – 9000

Indian or basement added mount serial number??? But the butt does not match and the scope, a very rare scope, appears to have been treated with a spray bomb.

Attachment 22285Attachment 22286Attachment 22287

Lot 530 
B.S.A. NO.4 MK.1 T SNIPER RIFLE: 303; 10 shot; 25.2" barrel; mint bore; black military finish to metal; action rail marked NO.4 MK.1; scope marked TEL SIGHTING NO.32 MK.II O.S. 1650 A 1944 NO.16138; mount marked F37292; rings marked AA & BB; exc full stock with grooved top wood; butt numbered 1101; butt socket marked M47C England 1944 F37292 T.R.; cheek piece & brass butt plate; appears in unissued cond. #F37292 L/R $7000 – 9000

Another mint rifle (with fresh paint?) and a mis-matched butt this time, but matching mount??

[bigduke6]

Doug,

If you can pass on my thanks to the " un named member" who brought to light some of the Enfields at the future auction, hope the info helps any buyers who were interested, being on the recieving end of a couple of crap items in the past, I was lucky to be able to return the items for a full refund, a loss on the postage was nothing compared with some losses people have had in the past.

[paulseamus]

May I ask how did the anonymous member get additional photos of the auction items? In both the printed catalogue and the on-line listing there is only the one small photo, with not much detail.

Paul

[Badger]

May I ask how did the anonymous member get additional photos of the auction items? In both the printed catalogue and the on-line listing there is only the one small photo, with not much detail.

Paul

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the question, but as with any auction, one can send a request to the auctioneers for additional information by inspection of the piece, as well as requesting specific pics.

As a absentee write-in or telephone bidder, I've bid on a LOT of items and it's how I've managed to get a lot more information on any item. I would never bid using the absentee party without substantial additional due diligence on any item I couldn't handle. I've even had some auctioneers on the phone with the item while they handled t and I've asked them questions about various markings, some using a magnifying glass.

Hope that helps ...

Regards,
Doug

[paulseamus]

Thanks Doug

I was planning to have a look first hand when in Melbourne next week.

I will email and request more photos and see how it goes.

Paul

[smelly sam]

The Australian Arms Auction - a personal prespective from one buyer...

This auction is run by people who are well aware of Robert's position and his collection and be assured that these are not the choicest of pieces, but most are right up there. He bought well providenced items and knew their worth and even built a humidity controlled room to store them.

(Doug, following is probably a bit off topic)

As far as AAA goes, did some analysis of the auction as they publish the results very soon after the event and compared it to other previous auctions. Lots on offer are around 600 to 800 items, yielding over AU$600k twice a year. Clearance is over 85%.

This time went through the whole cattledog, shortlisted one A4 page of 'mmm, thats nice', including a number of Robert E's lots then parsed that down to the 'value items I would reaaallly like' and of interest that added up (at their suggested higher price) to around the budget I was prepared to blow on old bangers and acruements.

This then had the reality check applied as to what I would actually be prepared to pay, sight unseen, from a 1000 kilometres away, which needless to say blew the original budget out somewhat.

Ended up with a short list of eight things that could improver the superannuation situation, phoned and emailed the list through and waited.

Of the eight, nailed three. With the five others going for $10 to $15 more than my estimate of worth. Which means if I was there bidding in person, would have had to walk home 'cause the bus fare home would have gone as well.

Best part of the whole deal was that two items went together, ie rifle _and_ a very specific bayonet, not anywhere near each other in lot number, with the third item being a second example of a rifle already in the safe with a serial number only 500 or so off the new companion. This third item when inspected a few days later at my dealer was found to be in exception condition internally.

So, the result. 3 out of 8, which I thought would not go for the price I bid (yahoo) and the missed 5 went only for a few dollars more (drat).

As far as the anon. listing about Robert E's items, here are few pickies of what didn't go to auction...

[greenbottle]

With item 526,check out Peter L,s book an inside view of the snipers rifle telescope and check page 2 and page70 item 6 and compare serial numbers

[Peter Laidler]

That was very astute GB. He sent me the header photo plus a few more unused ones via Bruce Gorton in NZ

Later thought. That rifle WAS Bruce Gortons

[vintage hunter]

I know this is an old thread but does anyone know what the No.4T's went for? Lot 529 in particular. I'm interested because I have an Indian No.4 Mk.1/2 T and the s/n is very close to this one, less than 500 apart. It'll be interesting to see how close it came to the projected selling price.