No4 Mk1 Cutaway (Skeleton) Action

[Alan de Enfield]

I think I made a good buy yesterday at auction - A Sketeon No4 action, its grubby and looks like it has been overpainted but If I can find somehwere to get it sandblasted and re 'blued' it should be as new.

Any suggestions who to use ?

I've seen these go for 'silly money' but I think the price was reasonable.

It was interesting that the auctioneer (before the auction started) made an annoncement about this lot :

"I have spoken with the Proof House and the Pattern Room and various Police Forces and this item is NOT a firearm. Any skeleton action that has the SKN serial numbers was made by the manufacturer and has never been a 'firearm' it therefore does not need putting 'on ticket'. Any skeleton action that does not have the SKN number has been converted by MOD Armourers, the Gun Trade etc. and therefore has been a firearm. (Once a firearm, always a firearm !!!) and therefore they would be a section 1 firearm.
The only Police Force that will not accept the SKN ones as non-firearms is Yorkshire who insist they are scetion 1"

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

As a matter of interest, the decision regarding that was made with us here at Warminster with all the paperwork. But, all of the SKN rifles started their lives as 'rifles'. They were converted in the 50's by LIST and Co at Dagenham under a big Enfield factory contract programme. List also did the Bren Guns too. But it's good to know that another official Enfield can be collected. To be honest, I think that they form a great part of a collection.

As I understand it, again with guidance from here, the DP's will soon be classified similarly. Maybe they already are. Can EFD help here?

Interestingly, in the 70's, I skeletonised a full length No4, including wood, barrel sections, butt etc etc. In fact, to a far greater degree than the standard SKN rifles and after a few minutes representation my local Police firearms place took it off my licence. On that basis alone, prosecuting a 'real' SKN owner in the future was a lost cause

[birdhound]

Given the barrel length of 9" found on these skeleton actions, SKN marked or not, they would be section 5 rather than section 1 as suggested by Yorkshire police!

[enfield303t]

So what are they worth? Which is more valuable a No1 or a No4. I ask as I have a No4 and have a line on a No1 but the owner has to look for the barrel as he took it off years ago?

Holy crap I just read a post by Peter Laidler about people like me I guess asking the value of something, my bad, but still would like to know what they are worth. I know what I paid and interested to see if the No1 is worth more or less.

[Brian Dick]

I imported some to the USA several years ago and had /have to run them on paperwork as BATF&E consider them working firearms. The 9" barrels have to be replaced with 16" to make them legal for sale without being registered under NFA, (National Firearms Act), as "SBR" or short barreled rifles. I still have a couple left to finish.

[peregrinvs]

I saw a couple of No.4 skeleton actions for sale at Beltring last year with deactivation certificates. Would the proof house have passed them 'as is', or would further deactivation work have to be carried out prior to certification?

[Enfieldlock]

As a matter of interest, the decision regarding that was made with us here at Warminster with all the paperwork. But, all of the SKN rifles started their lives as 'rifles'. They were converted in the 50's by LIST and Co at Dagenham under a big Enfield factory contract programme. List also did the Bren Guns too. But it's good to know that another official Enfield can be collected. To be honest, I think that they form a great part of a collection.

As I understand it, again with guidance from here, the DP's will soon be classified similarly. Maybe they already are. Can EFD help here?

Interestingly, in the 70's, I skeletonised a full length No4, including wood, barrel sections, butt etc etc. In fact, to a far greater degree than the standard SKN rifles and after a few minutes representation my local Police firearms place took it off my licence. On that basis alone, prosecuting a 'real' SKN owner in the future was a lost cause

Peter, I'm taking my L59 to the London Proof House any time now, (just to test your theory).

I'll buy you a beer if it works, if not..............................!

[Brit plumber]

"I have spoken with the Proof House and the Pattern Room and various Police Forces and this item is NOT a firearm. Any skeleton action that has the SKN serial numbers was made by the manufacturer and has never been a 'firearm' it therefore does not need putting 'on ticket'. Any skeleton action that does not have the SKN number has been converted by MOD Armourers, the Gun Trade etc. and therefore has been a firearm. (Once a firearm, always a firearm !!!) and therefore they would be a section 1 firearm.
The only Police Force that will not accept the SKN ones as non-firearms is Yorkshire who insist they are scetion 1"

Now bring on the SKN marked Brens!

[Thunderbox]

It was interesting that the auctioneer (before the auction started) made an annoncement about this lot :

"I have spoken with the Proof House and the Pattern Room and various Police Forces and this item is NOT a firearm. Any skeleton action that has the SKN serial numbers was made by the manufacturer and has never been a 'firearm' it therefore does not need putting 'on ticket'. Any skeleton action that does not have the SKN number has been converted by MOD Armourers, the Gun Trade etc. and therefore has been a firearm. (Once a firearm, always a firearm !!!) and therefore they would be a section 1 firearm.
The only Police Force that will not accept the SKN ones as non-firearms is Yorkshire who insist they are scetion 1"

The auctioneer was quite wrong then: many/most SKNs clearly bear remains of their original marks and are in no way any different to armourer-prepared skeletons.

The fact remains that any UK owner remains at risk of being charged with possession of a prohibited weapon (barrel length) and/or an unauthorised Section 1 firearm, as SKNs clearly do not meet old or current de-activation criteria. The only "safe" option is further deactivation, which Birmingham accept as a pinned chamber, slotted receiver ring & chamber, ground bolthead and cut firing pin.

[Beerhunter]

I saw a couple of No.4 skeleton actions for sale at Beltring last year with deactivation certificates. Would the proof house have passed them 'as is',

The Proof House certainly shouldn't do that. The Primary Legislation (1988 Firearms Amendment Act) points to set of deactivation rules which the Proof Houses must stick to. Those rules are extremely prescriptive and neither Proof House can vary them.

I have to agree with Thunderbox. In my opinion, they are clearly Section 5. This is partly based on my having fired a No.4 Skeleton at school (it has to be admitted only with blank) by simply replacing the bolt with one out of a service Rifle.