Issue / Use of L4A1 Magazines

[tankhunter]

Looks like a Unit Vehicle Transfer (Decal) for the Wessex Regiment. (Infantry) & possibly the Royal Wessex Yeomanry (Territorial Army Reserve) Like the US National Guard.
Unusual to see that as normaly boxes were not Unit Personalised like this. The TA are a lot more Leiniant with 'The Rules' that most regular Line Regiments! The Boxes themselves are not rare over here in the UK.

[Peter Laidler]

That is a 'WYVERN' It is the divisional sign of the 43rd Wessex Division. As Tankie says, that is the division created for and made up from all of the reserves from the west Country. Somerset, Devonshire, Dorsetshire, Cornwall etc etc

As a matter of interest/correctness KG. The official modification acording to the EMER to convert the Bren mag boxes to L4 mag boxes there was no wooden rubbing strip on the front of the box. The top wooden strip, inside the lid, was sat ON TOP of the punched-in strip that would have held the horsehair pad. The little strip with the claws that holds the horsehair was pulled out (it was only spot rivetted and came out quite easily when rolled out using the armourers pincers). Then the wood packing piece, about 1" deep x .6" wide was screwed on with two round head No8 screws through two holes drilled through the punched down strip.

I/we did about 80 of them when our old Mk3 Brens were replaced with L4A2's in 1966. My boss at the time, Stan 'the man' Etchells had to pass comment on the modification so that it could be finalised and published as a finalised EMER.

I forgot to say that the original modification instruction stated that you had to re-use the old horsehair rubbing strip by glueing it to the new strip of wood. Alas, they were so old and tatty by then that this was a waste of time so we used new horsehair matting, tacked to the new woiod batten.

There, that's another bit of Bren history..................

Back to the Wyvern tactical recognition sign for a minute............ That is the 43rd Wessex Divison equivalent of my left side logo. The vehicle marking of the 6th Armoured Division

[Kev G]

Peter,you mention that no wooden rubbing strip was used on the front of the magazine box. Could you give details of what was used ?

Many thanks KG

[Peter Laidler]

In a word, nothing. The only wood strip was in the top of the lid. I don't have the EMER handy unless Skippy, Tankie or Son has one handy. If the L4 mags were a bit of a loose fit, I don't think it ever affected them.

[Kev G]

Oh,I thought you ment that another material was used instead of timber rather than nothing at all.
With no front rubbing strip on the front of the box the magazines can end up in a heap when the box is lifted by the handle as they are too short to positivly locate in the dividers.



The problem is even worse on the shorter X3E1/L3 mag's with the FAL locking lug for the
L4A1 LMG (top in pic).

I have details of the factory conversion of 303 mag boxes to 7.62 boxes but these are for sheet metal parts.
Any chance of digging out any EMER info on the timber conversions ? Where these just a 'local' conversion ?

Many thanks KG

[Peter Laidler]

That's a very intersting observation KG and it's got me thinking. Now I'll definately have to get the EMER out now. Wait out. The modificatioon was officially sanctioned as an 'X' mod meaning that it was to be done at Unit level. The modification to the spare parts wallet was a 'Y' repair that had to be done at a Field workshop who had the necessary heavy duty machine to sew the pockets in

As well as modifying about 80 of these boxes, I oversaw the destruction of thousands of them and the magazines!

[Kev G]

I oversaw the destruction of thousands of them and the magazines!

.......and I always 'used' to think what a nice bloke you were

I will be sorting through a few hundred 7.62 mag boxes soon,I will try and make a note of any variations / modifications.

ATB KG

[tankhunter]

Kev,
The LMG mags were placed inside their respective boxes 180 Degrees the opposite way from from a .303" Bren Mag.
There is (Or SHOULD be) a 'U' section or Top Hat sheet steel bracket spot welded inside the lid.
THIS keeps the mags pretty well in place in the container.
of course, the bren mag being more curved & stowed Spine upwards against the lid kept THEM in place in the brackets.
I note your observation on the mag box appearing too long for LMG mags without a rubbing strip is well founded.
It DOES indeed look in your box as though it needs a strip to push the mags positively into the end brackets in place.
I can only sumise that if some of the mags didnt seat properly in THIS box. They would not move far, as the Top Hat section would prevent some movement & the other mags in the box would also stop latteral movement too far.
In use, the mags would have been returned into the boxes when empty anyway.
When on Patrol, the mag box would NOT have been carried by Personel on Foot. So I guess they never really thought about it much in the beginning. But, later on as this was discovered & in E.M.E.Rs as things needed 'Tidying up' so to speak. The extra rubbing strips were added to give positive retention. I have to add, that EVERY box I ever encountered. DID, indeed have all strips & brackets in place. So it was obviously a needed mod in all boxes later in Service use, In the British Army. What other Commonwealth Nations did, I am not sure. But the general trend was to copy what we did with our equipment. BUT, this did not alwas follow that trend in Practice!

[Kev G]

The LMG mags were placed inside their respective boxes 180 Degrees the opposite way from from a .303" Bren Mag.

Just a small point Tankie but they are placed in the box in the same orientation.
303 and 7.62 LMG mags can only be placed located in the brackets inside the boxes the same way, with the mouth of the magazine facing the hinge of the box.The exception being the early X3E1 magazines with inward bottom plate retaining lips which allows it to be placed either way round.

The inside lid top rubbing strip as you say does prevent some movement but will not stop them becoming dislodged.

The necessity for a front rubbing strip to the early converted 7.62 boxes by whatever material means to keep them in check must have been taken into account as there were 2 different types of early boxes.One for the shorter FAL locking lug X3E1/L3 mags and another for the later commonwealth locking lug L4A1 mags.I would assume the differences in the boxes was the depth of the front rubbing strip to take into account the difference in the length of the magazines.



ATB KG

[tankhunter]

Kev, Do you mean mags are placed in THIS particular box in the same orientation?
Because a NORMAL LMG Mag Tran box has, as I stated. & Top Hat U section spot welded inside the lid. This would make it Impossible to insert Bren .303" mags in correctly.
My Bren Mags sit spine upwards in the box. & the 7.62mm LMGs lay spine downwards.
Just clarification if it's YOUR Particular variantion of trans box that would allow the annomaly!