Issue / Use of L4A1 Magazines

[Kev G]

T.H. the pic below was just to illustrate how much slack there is in a 303 mag box if converted without a front rubbing strip when a 7.62 mag is placed in it.



The pic is of a normal 303 mag box so I didn't have to dissasemble the converted 7.62 mag box with the wooden rubbing strips to the front and top of lid (pic below) to illustrate the point.



Just for clarrification L4A1 7.62 LMG magazines will only fit in either the converted box above or the factory made box (below) with the mouth of the magazine facing the hinge and the spine up (the same orientation as a 303 magazine) Trying to fit one spine down in a converted box with timber rubbing strips it wil not go in all the way and on the new made box 7.62 mag box it will not go in at all.



Not sure why I would want to try and fit a 303 mag in a 7.62 LMG mag box ? I think there may be a bit of confusion on this ?

ATB KG

[nzl1a1collector]

While were talking about magazine boxes. Has anyone ever seen a box marked :-

BOX, MAGAZINE, 7.62 MM. RIFLE, MK. 1
1005-99-960-0794

In theory it should be a narrow version of the L4A1 12 magazine box?

[tankhunter]

Nice pictures Kev! After our conversation on the Phone last night. I will dig out one of each of my Bren & LMG L4 Mag Boxes & clarify with 'Hands on', so to speak! I will post my findings here for all to see.
I cant believe that something so small can turn out to be such a Huge Conglomeration of Variants! This could turn out to be a subject all on it's own! Lol. When you think about the Many countries & thier respective versions of Mag boxes, & add to this conversions, Mod's Etc. You could almost form a collection of Mag boxes on thier Own!

Peter will confirm this I know. If you think about the Hundereds of Thosands of Magazines in Service At any one time. The Unit/Circuit Armourer on His Inspections should have in theory inspected them all. The Reality was different! Each Units holdings of Weapons, Tripods, Appurtences & Associtaed Equipment was VAST at EACH unit level. The Weapons Naturally were of the Top Priority. The Mags, well....They were just Mags & there HUNDEREDS at EACH Unit! Add to this all the RIFLE Mags as well, & you can imagine the MOUNTAIN of inspection work potentially! Total: = THOUSANDS! The Armourer didnt have time or Truthfully, didnt want to spare his time on Boring old magazines!! So it was the practice that if a Mag was returned to the Armoury & reported as Defective. The were put in a Box & this was taken to the Armourers Workshop generally on a Monthly basis. Occasionally, a Defective Mag would rear it's head on live firing on Range days & be bought over to the Armourer between a detail firing.
Sometimes they could be repaired, sometimes written off & a replacment indented for. Add to that, the fact that MOST LMG Boxes werent touched at all. You can imagine it was ENTIRELY Possible for things to get missed or not Modified as required. This is how annomalies DO turn up occasionaly. I am sure my box is one of them, it 'Originated' from a 'Certain Unit' that is VERY covert & does NOT open it's Portals to simply 'Anyone'! As this Source very rarely would want any extra weight or unessacary bulk Etc to be taken on 'Opperations'. It is ENTIRELY Possible that this specimin may be one that has been missed. Or 'Obtained' from an Unknown Source 'Somewhere down the Line'!....
They are a Law unto themselves pretty much most of the time & 'The Rules' That SHOULD apply to all. DONT always get followed by 'Them'!..Lol.

[Peter Laidler]

Querie solved........... The EMER, E348 modification instruction dated 1965 shows the box modified SIMILAR to KG's second picture above but with the wood batten strip sat on top of the punched rib (shown, same pic. above, covered in a horsehair strip) Then the horsehair strip glued onto the wooden batten that acts as a spacer for the less curved L4 magazine.

There is indeed another wood batten that acts as a spacer, exactly as shown in the same pic to retain the new magazines within the spaces each bit of 'locally sourced hardwood' was retained in place by two No8 roundheaded 3/4" woodscrews obtainable from Ordnance stocks.

That is the modification at UNIT level At Base workshop level, new pressed steel inserts will be spot welded in place as per the bottom photo and then the box is sent through the system and comes out looking like brand new - as per the box shown. As I said, problem solved but you can imagine what it's like being equipped with a regiments worth of new L4 Brens and magazines, only to be told that you've got to modify all of your existing BREN magazine boxes to take the flatter L4 magazines. THEN, all of the spare parts walllets have got to be withdrawn so that they can be modified to hold the new 4 piece cleaning rods! Phew!

[peregrinvs]

A thought just occurred to me whilst looking at these pictures of mag boxes - going by some prices I've seen lately, it could cost you the best part of £500 to completely fill one with L4A1 magazines...

[tankhunter]

A thought just occurred to me whilst looking at these pictures of mag boxes - going by some prices I've seen lately, it could cost you the best part of £500 to completely fill one with L4A1 magazines...

IF you can find that many! Ha Ha!

[Peter Laidler]

Approx £500 to fill a magazine box up with common-as-muck L4 magazines.................. Just how much are they valued at then? How much is a whole box of still wrapped new ones valued at too..............................

[tankhunter]

Approx £500 to fill a magazine box up with common-as-muck L4 magazines.................. Just how much are they valued at then? How much is a whole box of still wrapped new ones valued at too..............................

Peter, at todays rates on the 'Circuit' standard L4 mags are £25 approx NORMALLY! I have seen them priced higher, but they are still on the tables at THAT price! I know where there are a small quantity at £22 each, but that is a Dealer price, NOT available to Joe Public at that Price!

[nzl1a1collector]

Here in NZ L4A1 and the 30 round mags for the L2A1 Rifle sell for around NZD$150 each !!!!

Bren Gun Magazine chest modified and used for twelve 30 round L2A1 Rifle magazines.

[Kev G]

As an aside to the conversion of 303 mag boxes for 7.62 magazines I have just spotted a remark in the L4A6 CES (1961) in regard to this which is quite interesting.
It states that until the new magazine box is available (item -960-0254) a 303 magazine box should be used with "cotton waste or rags as packing inside the box magazine Bren,to prevent damage to the new pattern magazines."
Looks like this workround is going to save me allot of effort in displaying my 7.62 X3 series FAL locking lug magazines properly until I find the correct mag box.

ATB KG