.303 ammunition values and what was it used for?

[Badger]

I have a friend who has come across some old 303 ammo and was wondering if it was worth anything:

Boxes of 20 x 10 (boxes original/unopened) 303 Ball Mk 8 Z Cdn Lot IVI-85 H0103

Boxes of 64 x 7 (boxes original/unopened) Blank 303 LMk5z 16/11/53 Plus 5 individual rds

Boxes of 48 x 5 (boxes original/unopened) 303 D.I.MkVIIz plus 2 boxes opened/full and 1 box open/47 rds

Box of 48 x 1 (original/unopened) 303 Mk7z 1951 plus 1 box opened/43 rds

Can anyone provide an explanation as to what it is and perhaps some idea as to value?

Regards,
Doug

Information

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[RangeRover]

No responses up to now? Well, though my knowledge is extremely limited, I'll share it. FWIW, and I stand to be corrected.

The 5 boxes of 48 rounds of D.I. Mk VIIz should be WWII-dated, boxer-primed and non-corrosive. Prices/full box last I checked ranged above and below $40/box. I would suggest that, with the exception of the blanks, the others: the 50s vintage Mk7z and 80s vintage IVI Mk8 (which they appear to be) would sell for about $.80/round as well. I can't speak to boxer vs. Berdan on those, and no idea as to the value of the blanks. Hope this helped a little at least.

[Amatikulu]

303 Ball Mk 8 Z Cdn Lot IVI-85 H0103 - Mark 8z indicates the bullet is a boat tail bullet loaded and the cartridge is loaded with a nitrocellulose powder. IVI is Industries Valcartier Industries of Canada and the "-85" indicates the year of manufacture 1985.

Blank 303 LMk5z 16/11/53 - L is a letter used to demarcate a blank round on the headstamp - nitrocellulose loaded and made in 1953

303 D.I.MkVIIz - D.I. is Defense Industries, Montreal. Mark VIIz is nitrocellulose loaded with the standard flat based bullet.

303 Mk7z 1951 - same as above but loaded in 1951 - manufacturer uncertain

Here in the USA the cheapest 303 I find these days is old cordite loaded rounds at 50 cents a round

[Stevo]

The IVI was manufactured for Ranger use and never, ever surplused.

[smellie]

The DI is Defence Industries. WW2 manufacture, Boxer primed, noncorrosive and nonmercuric. By FAR the best .303 ammo of WW2 and, for reloading, the brass is wonderful to work with. Rims are ALL right at Max, so no headspacing problems at all. Remarkably consistent. If stored well, you an still get 1.5 MOA out of the right rifle, despite its age. By this time, the brass will be hardening a bit and likely would benefit from a mild annealing before being reloaded too many times. Bullets on this are standard Mark VII with gilding-metal-clad mild-steel jackets. SPECIALS manufactured by this plant used the standard casing and the standard headstamp and were CODED on the bullet tip and on the box seal. Around here this goes for $20 a box, up to $40 a box (48 in a box).

If Canadian, the 1951 stuff will be standard Mark VII, it will be made by Dominion Arsenals, it will have that 'ORRIBLE great big Berdan primer which was Corrosive AND Mercuric, it will be loaded with Cordite. Headstamp will be "D/!\A 1951 7" and those will be at Noon, 4 and 8 o'clock respectively. This stuff was issued for our national matches for a couple of years and had a reputation for excellent accuracy right out to 1000 yards, even better than the 1952 from the same plant. Brass is Max rims, Service spec, bullet is standard Mark VII. This was wonderful shooting ammo, too good just to bang off at tin cans. It is selling here for the same price as the Defence Industries stuff, mostly because nobody knows the differences between them. Generaly, you can get $25 to $35 a bx for this (48 in a box, of course).

IVI is indeed Industries Valcartier Inc. They are the Liberal-government-appointed ammuntion supplier to the Canadian Armed Forces. They had VERY real problems for several years, although I do believe that they had smartened up by the time they made this. They still hate me for a newspaper article I wrote about their bad ammo. The article was printed in at least a dozen newspapers in 2 provinces and resulted in a million dollars' worth of lawsuits against myself and the newspaper chain. These suits were withdrawn VERY quickly when I sent them the actual casings I had photographed for the newspaper article and asked for THEIR metallurgical analysis of same. I still had 300 rounds of their bad brass and they knew it, so they immediately started buying lots and lots of expensive newspaper space (at Line Rate, mind you!) to tell everybodywhat an idiot I was and that their products were just fine. I repeat, I DO believe that they had smartened up by the time they made this batch of ammo, so it should be okay. Canadian production went over to the NCNM Boxer primer in 1955, as I recall, so that is what this will have. Bullets should be Mark VIII spec, which means 174 grains with boat tail. MV should be 2550 from a rifle; MV of normal Mark VII Ball is 2440. Stevo is quite right: none of this was EVER surplussed. OTOH, some Ranger units could be quite remarkably loose with some supplies. I was TOS informally in Lewisporte, Nfld about 5 years before this stuff was made and was issued with 192 rounds of DI to practise with. They wanted somebody local who could service/repair their rifles if necessary but they had no slot in their TO Ops for such a person..... so it was quite informal. I would think this stuff should be worth a buck a pop. Brass should be reloadable, but watch for thin rims, hard primers and hard necks. Annealing can work wonders.

L headstamp, of course, is Blank. UNLIKE US practice, Canadian Blank ammo was never made up from reject casings. Rather, it was a special production run. The actual cases were identical to standard Ball ammuniton casings, the only problem being that darned rosette crimp. It can be trmmed back after firing and annealed, but that often gives you a slightly-short case for reloading, although excellent for making up .410 Musket, 6.5 Dutch and 6.5 Romanian from. I have some L5Z from 1956 and it has the NCNM Boxer primer, but I can't say about this without seeing a specimen. If the primers are big and copper, then they are corrosive/mercuric; if they look like ordinary primers, they will be NCNM. Blank ammo makes noise, scares away crows and children, fires very nice graveside salutes and launches Mills Bombs, should you happen to have any.... but there's not much else you can do with it. Generally it runs about 4 for a dollar but it could be more than that now.

Already some good answers here.

Hope this helps a bit.
.

[JerryEAL]

No responses up to now? Well, though my knowledge is extremely limited, I'll share it. FWIW, and I stand to be corrected.

The 5 boxes of 48 rounds of D.I. Mk VIIz should be WWII-dated, boxer-primed and non-corrosive. Prices/full box last I checked ranged above and below $40/box. I would suggest that, with the exception of the blanks, the others: the 50s vintage Mk7z and 80s vintage IVI Mk8 (which they appear to be) would sell for about $.80/round as well. I can't speak to boxer vs. Berdan on those, and no idea as to the value of the blanks. Hope this helped a little at least.

Just paid $50 for a sealed box of 1943 Dominion Industries MKVII FMJ.