2 versus 5 groove, date of manufacture, sight type for no4 mk1 enfield?

[tbonesmith]

No this is all news to me! The TZ 4/47 looks significantly more robust too. Anyone got one perhaps for sale?

Can help with a central but not the British stuff

[lxvnrsw]

What do you mean by a central?

[David TS]

What do you mean by a central?

Aperture Sights ID

[Alan de Enfield]

No this is all news to me! The TZ 4/47 looks significantly more robust too.

AJ Parker 4/47 TZ Sight

The TZ4/47 does not pull the elevation screw into engagement in line with the barrel like the 5C (which leads to a twisting effect in engagement of the rising dovetail). Instead a strong spring loaded lever pushes the screw (and the rising dovetail) sideways out from the action. This maintains good bearings on both side of the rising dovetail and equalises wear.

Unlike the 5C you don't have to undo/retighten the lock screw to adjust the elevation setting. A better functioning and better built sight than the 5C in all respects.

[Peter Laidler]

I had about 20 different variations of these types of sight pass through my hands in the last year after clearing out my sons school Cadet Force armoury of 40 years worth of collected odds and sods, let me be a devils advocate for a moment. While taking ADE's point in the thread, it seems to me that mechanically, both sights work on EXACTLY the same principle. While the AGP sight has the quick release lever that pushes the lead screw (and therefore the elevating arm of the sight) outwards - that is said to spread the friction area (?) and create a more even load (?). Don't be toooooo swayed by this because the tried and trusty old P-H sight also overcomes this 'problem' (if it ever was.....) by incorporating a spring loaded captive ball within the tapered trackway of the elevating arm. BUT, what is more, it also incorporates a similoar mechanism into the deflection arm mechanism too

I'd say that it was a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other so far........ But on the practical side of life, there are a zillion more spare parts available for the P-H sight

[lxvnrsw]

Well I guess either way, the PH5c or the TZ 4/47 is the way to go. Where does one go to pick up one of these sights? And roughly what am I looking to have to pay?

[Peter Laidler]

I put these sights on that auction site because they were Army purchased and on the books and that site is an authorised and verifiable method of disposal. I forgot what they went for but I learned a lot about them while doing so. My opinion afterwards was that if you want a good, all round workable and accurate sight that you could bolt on, zero in and come away with a prize then they are reasonable. If you want one in the box with matched mating numbers, with all the original finish, blow up tyres, electric windows............, you know the sort of thing, then they go for silly money.

But the good news is that they are easily fixable and there are a couple of members on this site who can rebuild and even refit/rematch uppers to lowers. There's some good threads about them on this forum somewhere

[Alan de Enfield]

Well I guess either way, the PH5c or the TZ 4/47 is the way to go. Where does one go to pick up one of these sights? And roughly what am I looking to have to pay?

Ebay is as good as anywhere.
Price depends on wich way the wind is blowing - a year ago occasionally were making up to £300 ($450) (for some reason), the ones I sold made around the £200 ($300) mark but they now seem to be around the £150 ($225) area.
Good ones (matching numbers, 6-hole eyepiece, nice condition, no-slop) will always fetch a premium.

AJP4/47 will normally fetch a 25% (even 50%) premium over the PH5C. (I still think they feel 'better made')

AJP 4/47


PH5C

[Peter Laidler]

Out of interest, does anyone out there in forumland know which came first, the AGP 4/47 or the equivalent P-H? Can I humbly suggest to you LXVN to avoid P-H with an alloy base. They are notorious for stripping the threads. So notorious in fact that P-H wouldn't accept them back under their repair option unless it was still under the guarantee. If anyone tells you that it's perfect, you can tell they're telling lies because their lips will be moving

Can anyone who's computer literate put a lead in to the other threads on this subject. It was quite interesting in a nerdish sort of way and I learned a lot from it. Most of which I wish I'd known about before I sold the ones from my sons old school. There was a sort of brochure that came in one thread but even in the 20 or so that I had, there were probably 19 variables - some of which weren't in the catalogue! As for the thread forms....................

[David TS]

Out of interest, does anyone out there in forumland know which came first, the AGP 4/47 or the equivalent P-H?

Peter

The Rifleman reckons the PH5C to be around 1950, and the /47 bit of the TZ 4/47 designates the year, so the PH5C chicken would be three years later than the TZ 4/47 egg