No. 1 Mk. III* Lithgow Circa June 1941 (Photo Thread)

[jmoore]

What's so special about a June '41 Lithgow?

Nothing, particularly. Except it was purchased in June a few years back, AND the serial number- which makes it downright peculiar.

Soooo, snice it's its birthday, some photos:







The number under the bolt handle (F1694) matches that on the top RH side of the butt socket.- There's also a small "MA" mark just to the rear on the top edge of the socket.






Note the 6 '41 barrel date.





The rear handguard I suspect is Indian, and the forestock is numbered to the rifle but displays a "SLAZ42" mark. Otherwise, not too bad!

A slideshow link w/ more photos below:

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...view=slideshow

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Peter Laidler]

The butt has had a bit of a pasting around the socket. That's the reason why we insist on a 1/32 gap (or the width of a hacksaw blade) between the butt and the butt socket

[jmoore]

But it DOES have the gap!

I thought it odd, as it's one of the few I have that has the gap.



---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

Whilst on the subject of gaps, how often do you see a barrel to receiver body gap? I reckon it is butted up against the chamber opening and receiver ring counterbore.

[jmoore]

Maybe a better photo or two of the barrel/receiver gap.





Maybe 0.005-0.008"

[Peter Laidler]

The No1 breeches up internally while the No4 breeches up externally hence there might be a small gap between the body and knox form on a No1

The butt might have a gap NOW, but that gap has opened during firing since the wood broke away. If it is a firm wood to metal contact - as your was - then during firing the wood, which should be proud of the butt socket just neatly breaks away all the way around each side. Hence the need for the gap. The gap AND a TIGHT stock bolt AND the taper fit of the butt into the butt socket ensures that the load on firing is taken on the flat face of the butt, hidden inside the butt socket and not on the edge of the butt.

Our out-inspectors had an old piece of hacksaw blade attached to a bit of string that they'd use as a slip gauge to test the butt socket gap. And woe betide any sloppy Armourer who fitted the butt tight then as an afterthought just went around the join and opened it up to thickness with a hacksaw blade. That would remove the paint and phosphate finish and be spotted immediately

Another bit of useless Enfield related info if you're about to fit your old butt, a used one or a new one

Just a small point to anyone out there fitting a new , used or replacement butt

[Demo]

I like these 41 MkIII's being the last of the MkIII's from Lithgow. The forend is most likely a replacement, nothing wrong with that.

What is peculiar about the serial number?

Nice gun jmoore and thanks for the pictures

[jmoore]

What is peculiar about the serial number?

It's a Lithgow made (barrel date at least) in "June" 1941. S/N B 61941. "B" could be "Born on" or "Birthday", I suppose!

[Bruce_in_Oz]

It must have been worked on at some time.

I notice that it is marked as a Mklll, but has a cut-off but no dial-sight. Does it have rear-sight windge adjustment? The fore end is definitely a coachwood lll* pattern with the usual brass threaded rod reinforcement.

The butt is marked most generously, including the remains of the "HV" stamp, and a very faded number under the equally faded "lll" stamp.

The matching numbers underneath the fore end, just behind the nose cap and a date of 1942 would indicate a repair at some time. If a major rebuild, the rifle should have FTR markings.

Peter's remarks bout the fitting of the butt are quite important and very pertinent. The combination of a gap being present but there being evidence of chipping is odd. Maybe someone decided to "beautify" the junction between the butt and receiver. Perhaps this rifle spent some time as a club target rifle and was worked on outside the military system. If that is a piling swivel I see on the nosecap, this rifle has probably spent some time with an "enthusiast".

The BA marked bolthead is interesting. It has an electric-pencilled "P" on it, possibly indicatng "proof". The land for Bathurst Annexe was not acquired until 19th June 1941, so this bolthead would be amongst the first produced in that facility

[Demo]

It must have been worked on at some time.

I notice that it is marked as a Mklll, but has a cut-off but no dial-sight. Does it have rear-sight windge adjustment? The fore end is definitely a coachwood lll* pattern with the usual brass threaded rod reinforcement.

The butt is marked most generously, including the remains of the "HV" stamp, and a very faded number under the equally faded "lll" stamp.

The matching numbers underneath the fore end, just behind the nose cap and a date of 1942 would indicate a repair at some time. If a major rebuild, the rifle should have FTR markings.

Peter's remarks bout the fitting of the butt are quite important and very pertinent. The combination of a gap being present but there being evidence of chipping is odd. Maybe someone decided to "beautify" the junction between the butt and receiver. Perhaps this rifle spent some time as a club target rifle and was worked on outside the military system. If that is a piling swivel I see on the nosecap, this rifle has probably spent some time with an "enthusiast".

The BA marked bolthead is interesting. It has an electric-pencilled "P" on it, possibly indicatng "proof". The land for Bathurst Annexe was not acquired until 19th June 1941, so this bolthead would be amongst the first produced in that facility

Lithgow made rear sights with windage obsolete in 1917 and volley sights 1916. This rifle is perfectly normal for a 1941 MkIII apart for the broad sectioned piling swivel and replacement forend.

Refurbed rifles weren't stamped FTR until 1950. A fully refurbed rifle prior to that would have had the butt stamped R over MA and the month/year. I've not seen one stamped later than 47.
l

[Bruce_in_Oz]

It gets stranger:

If that is an "R" prefix on the serial number, it shouldn't be a Lithgow produced rifle.

To the best of my knowledge, Lithgow serial numbers ran from "A" series to "F" prefix; 1944-45 and the last run in 1953. The "B" series ran from 1922 to about mid 1941.

Furthermore, there appears to be a British proof (Crown, GR, crossed pennants and a P) on the left side of the knox form photo. Lithgow barrels of the time would have had either the LP and crossed pennants or "ACP" in a shield, depending on date.

I am wondering it it may be one of the many Brit manufactured jobs that found their way back to Oz from sundry battlefields after WW1 and was put through the mill in mid to late 1941. Original serial number, barrel and possibly bolt body retained but lots of Oz replacement parts.

Check the Left side of the receiver socket for any signs of remnants of other markings.