No4 MK1 trigger would not make weight at Camp Perry........

[tbonesmith]

Sounds like the sear spring might not be doing what it's supposed to. I too have noticed that in the notes there is no "lost the first pull" situation directly addressed. And while I can't from your description give you a clear instruction on how to fix it, I can suggest that you do like I did and remove the barrelled action from the forend, and then screw the trigger guard to it with the crush collar in place. Then put the bolt in and check function of the trigger, if you have a similar pull to when the rifle is assembled, you'll be able to see how the trigger, sear and striker are ineracting and this will give you a very good idea of which areas need adjustment (adjustment to be done when the rifle is reassembled).
If when you pull the barrelled action and assemble it with the trigger guard the trigger pull is nothing like the assembled rifle you could pack the trigger guard a bit here and there to try to set up the trigger pull situation you have with the rifle assembled.
This means of making it visual has helped me with a number of rifles and for me it helped get a far better grip on the mass of information in the articles to which you have been referring.

[Peter Laidler]

SANAFU...... I've done one or two of these and before you get lead up the garden path any further and cutting through the cra......, er, unnecessary waffle, the first thing we need to know, even before we go anywhere else is this........

Is your rifle a Mk1 or 1/1 or is it a Mk1/2, 1/3 or a 2. Just a simple answer is all that's required and we'll take it further then.

[Snafu]

Peter
It a No 4 MK1
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=25065
Thank you for any help and your time.
Our national matches are coming up and I do not want him DQ again
It would pass weight test now
But in reading your writings I know it not right.
All my M1s/ARs/03s and carbines are right.
He was very close to a medal score last year.
I was kind of glad he crashed on offhand because if he had shot a medal score and gotten DQ.........it would have really hurt him

[Snafu]

Sounds like the sear spring might not be doing what it's supposed to

I notice first stage is different will mag out
It is 100% will mag out
If slipped in I loose first stage
If slammedit it seem better but not quit like no mag?

[tbonesmith]

I'll stay out of this one now.

[Peter Laidler]

Now that we've established that it is a Mk1 rifle, I'll side track for a second to tell you why removing the magazine has altered the trigger pressure. It's because the sear spring is anchored to the rear of the magazine catch and when you release the magazine, the catch springs forwards slightly under the load of the sear spring and therefore decreases the other end load on the sear and therefore the trigger pressure.

This is going to take an hour or so to put into readable and none-toooooo- technical words. So bear with me and I'll come back to you.

But first, I want you to unscrew the front trigger guard screw from tight until you hear it 'click' as it overturns the thread that tells you that the screw is free of the female thread. You can screw it in and out a couple of times just to ensure that you have the CORRECT amount of turns. I want it to be correct to the nearest 1/8th of a turn. I also want you to make sure that the 1/4" spring washer is present between the head of the screw and trigger guard

[Snafu]

Peter
You want me to counr the turn until snug?
Spring washer is there

[Peter Laidler]

Count the turns from TIGHT to FREE........

[Peter Laidler]

Now it’s time to strip the rifle. You can leave the butt on. The first thing I want you to do is place the trigger guard on a flat surface like a sheet of glass and ensure that it is dead flat. Please don’t listen to those tinkerers who tell you that you can adjust the trigger pull offs and pressure by bending the trigger guard. Believe me, if you could, it'd be detailed in the EMER and real Armourers would have been doing it that way since 1907 - but you can't..... The trigger guard has to be flat. Now that you’ve got all that, put the trigger guard and trigger back onto the rifle WITHOUT the fore-end. Insert the rear screw, then the collar at the front, washer and front screw. If it takes A x/8 turns to undo and tighten the front screw with the fore-end on, then it should take A x/8 to undo and tighten the screw with the fore-end OFF but with the collar fitted. If it doesn’t, then you’ve got to decrease or increase the length of the collar until it does. But we’re going to assume that it does….

Cock the rifle and now CAREFULLY squeeeeeze the trigger and watch the action of the lower cam ‘hump’ of the trigger. Look carefully as it rotates and it should rotate the sear until the upper cam touches the same trigger bearing surface of the sear. This is the first pressure and it should be between 3 to 4 pounds pressure to achieve this. If it doesn’t, don’t worry….., we’ll come back to it. But importantly, the nose of the sear should be JUST on the break point of the sear bent of the cocking piece. The next thou of movement of the trigger should fire the rifle. If it doesn’t, then you’ve got to adjust the lower hump if it fires too early and the top hump if it fires too late. To read up about this you’ll have to read up on the thread I wrote a couple of years ago.

Now, we’ll jump to where your rifle pull-offs are absolutely perfect in every way. A good clean first pull and a crisp and even break with no drag whatsoever for the second pull. But alas, while the pull-offs are perfect, the weights are up the creek……….

Incidentally, before we get down to the nitty-gritty of trigger pressures, one thing that can upset the pull-off weight poundage is a broken or soft F/P spring. This will immediately lessen the pull-off weights. From the FIRED position, it should take between 7 to 9 lbs to initially move the cocking piece rearwards (And from the cocked position, between 13 to 16 lbs weight

[jmoore]

Don't know if this helps at all, but it's the best thing I found in the albums so far. Nothing with the trigger guard attached. No cutaways, either.: