Market Vs. Cdn Value

[Riflechair]

Dear Friends

I am not entirely sure of what the market value is for milsurp weapons is anymore.

In Terrace, BC (where I live) I have seen realstate properties double over the last 5 years. Meanwhile there has been a massive exitus of skilled vocations and workers due to a lack of employment opportunities. In fact we have a net reduction in population due to regional recession and net income to my town has dramatically decreased. Yet the housing market continues to increase dramatically. It woulde seem we are the next Newfoundland economy.

The comparison to the firearms market seems to be following a similar trajectory. The number of shooters out there is exponentially less. We seem to be a dying breed.

In Britain a firearm is worth more deactivated than not. How is it possible for new shooters to become immersed in milsurp shooting when WE as a community drive the prices up when the demand is becoming less and less. There are by capita less of us then there were 5 years ago. Yet the prices have almost doubled over thyat same period.

For example I purchased a wrapped Irish No4Mk2 for $450 FIVE YEARS AGO and ended up selling it for $750 unwrapped recently.

What originally made milsurp collecting interesting to me what that it was an affordable conduit to obtaining a varied and interesting historical collection. It seems to have recently turned into an elitest club - very difficult for new enthusiasts to join. I have also seen repeated attacks on CGN in the milsurp forum that would rather incriminate people for their interests rather than support them. Its rather confusing to be honest. How can we as a community allow our children and grand children appreciate the historical value of our military surplus weapons whyem they are no longer affordable in original condition? It seems to me that we are supporting the deactivation of these military surplus firearms by our own interests.

What have you done to support the actual use of military service weapons? Feel free to host your own shoots that makes original as issued firearms the mainstay of your match. See Riflechair.com for ideas.

I am not trying to make my own military shoot famous. I just want to see this hording of milsurps stop and to see these old warriors obtain some range time by the next generation of shooters. At the moment I can't even get a donation of a milsurp for my next shoot. Firearms enthusiasts used to help out in this regard merely a few years ago. We are doing ourselves harm. I feel we are in some manner assisting anti-gun groups by making the market inaccessible. I know that many of you agree. Is it within our grasp as a community to affect change? I'm really interested in your opinion.

What does your crystal ball tell you what the milsurp market will look like in the next 5 years? How do we make sure our children are able to invest in an affordable chapter of the military surplus firearms market?

Without reflecting on the past we doom ourselves to the same mistakes.

Information

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[stencollector]

I have carried on Shilo's traditional "Battle of the Bulge" milsurp match here in Shilo. I have also duplicated it with the same basic match except without the snow and the frostbite as the D-day match which we now hold in June. The match is only open to WW2 type weapons and must be as issued. We have allowed some latitude (ie M1Ds for the sniper rifle, or no4mk2s for a regular rifle) but for the most part have managed to keep it "pure". We get as many shooters now as we did in the old days, although some of them seem to be coming from further away to attend these matches.

I think the internet has been one of the biggest causes of the prices skyrocketing on this stuff, while at the same time generally making guys more aware that it's worth something, and not to take their hacksaws to them. It also drives the feeding frenzy and male competitiveness for some of the higher end stuff.

The deactivated guns are merely continuing to fulfill the desire of guys to own a piece of history. How else would this generation and the next ever feel the weight of a Bren or sten? But at the same time, the myriad of laws and regulations, along with the costs of meeting those obligations, are causing some guns to be deactivated which otherwise do not have to be. Most military vehicle collectors I know have deactivated Enfields to fill the gunracks on the applicable vehicle. While there are some allowances in the laws for the use of firearms for displays or re-enactments, the risks outweigh their use.

Of course, the UN's steps to prevent the proliferation of military small arms, along with the fact that the majority of the small arms from the last 50 years are selective fire, will ensure that further supply of mil-surps is going to be less and less. So even if the number of shooters and collectors dwindles, so will the numbers of available milsurps to purchase.

There were 2.3 million licenced owners in Canada a few years ago. Most of the reduction in that number was people opting out of participating in the liscencing scheme more so than giving up on the ownership of firearms. I personally don't believe the milsurp collecting is done yet.

[P.E. Islander]

I think the rising price of Mil-Surplus firearms is pretty easy to explain - low supply vs demand, and better communications, i.e. the internet.

When I started accumulating military rifles approximately twenty five years ago I could buy SA marked M-91 Mosins for $29.95 each from International Firearms. International had a big catalog and their stuff went pretty cheap. At that point in time the US still prohibited the import of surplus stuff (GCA 68), but when that ban was lifted the prices immediately went up since International and other surplus arms dealers had a bigger, richer market to sell into. When our government got progressively more restrictive International had enough and packed up and went south. Since then surplus guns have only been imported in minor quantities by the other relatively small importers like Marstar. So basically we are dealing with a pool of surplus firearms that have been in the country for awhile, and there are very few new ones arriving to keep the prices down. The demand is still there. So the prices go up.

The average collector has a wealth of information at his hands in the form of the internet. Ready access to information almost always increases the value of the items being discussed as it increases desirability.

I dont see much of anything changing any time soon. The high prices are here to stay. Great if you are selling of course, but not too hot if you are buying.

[Dimitri]

I think you need to give the younger kids credit, on a lot of other boards I notice more kids buying a fair number of military firearms as their first firearms to get into shooting. They are still decently cheap and plentiful compared to the alternatives.

Still I think the market will level off and may even start to fall with time. I'd have to say a big chunk of the "military surplus" market isn't surplus anymore which is something I think should be considered if we are to consider future price trends.

AR-15's, SIG Specials, IMI Trevors, SAI M1As (as well as Norinco M14S), Chinese Type 95/97's, CZ-58's and 858's. etc. All military style firearms, all being sold in Canada currently.

Dimitri