Peter Laidler---more about the Lanchester SMG story.

[drm2m]

Who got the Lanchesters?

50,000 Lanchesters: (nearly) all for the Royal Navy. First contract June 13, 1941.

The first order was supposed to be split 50-50 between the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, which did not happen.

By this time the British Army had supplies of the Thompson, and they made it quite clear that the Thompson was what they wanted, so the Army kept the Thompson.

The Royal Air Force would immediately receive the 2,000 newly-acquired Smith & Wesson
9mm carbines for the defense of aerodromes and airfields now springing up around the country.
(Ironically the RAF had originally requested a copy of the German MP38.)

*I had no idea what Smith & Wesson 9mm carbine Peter was talking about.
I asked the question to Peter.

This was his answer.

Thanks Peter.
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S&W designed a hideous 9mm SMG that the UK paid for, up front, in advance. It was totally unsuccessful and they were scrapped. Several examples still exist, including a couple at the Pattern Room and at Warminster.
But briefly, it ejected the empty cases downwards, through a tube at the rear of the magazine. Surely a jam waiting to happen I'd say! And true to form, it was.

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Peter, I assume this was the gun you were referring to?
Interesting that they are now highly sought after collector pieces as unsuccessful as they were.

David

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

There WAS one copy of the S&W light rifle 1940 in the PPCLI regimental museum when it was located in Currie Barracks in Calgary. (it's moved by a bit now) It was hanging inb the small arms lockup under the stairs along with a quantity of M2 Carbines and 1886 Winchesters and such other weapons that would never see display. It was missing the whole magazine affair and the downwards ejecting tube thing which appear to sit together. It was otherwise new in appearance and I've many times wondered what became of it since the move to new location. I saw it in the mid "80s and 25 years does a great deal to some museums' old stash of stuff. Otherwise, I've never seen one in private hands.

[Peter Laidler]

There was a LOT more to this disasterous episode than meets the eye so far as S&W were concerned. Too much to go into here but well documented. One day I'll take one of ours onto the range and see how it functions.............. No......., maybe not!

[drm2m]

A September 1991 "American Rifleman" article, "Smith and Wesson Model 1940 Light Rifle" contibuted the greatest flaw in the carbine's design as having been developed with U. S. commercial ammunition. When used with the higher pressure British ammo, breakage quickly occurred. After repeated attempts to fix the issues, the Brits "tired of the repeated failures" and demanded their $1 million payment back. The new manager at S&W, C. R. Hellstrom negotiated a settlement to supply revolvers instead. This arrangement held off bankruptcy for the company until the U. S. entered the war with the resulting huge orders for arms.

Apparently the majority of the carbines were destroyed. In 1974, during a clean-up at the S&W factory, 137 Mark I's and 80 Mark II's were found in their original crates. They sold in 1975 for about $2,500 each. The carbine is NFA exempt, despite it's short barrel.


Not Lanchester material I know, but it may fill in some blanks in the history.

Comments from 18Dtracker on another Forum.

[browningautorifle]

Maybe that's where the one I saw originated. That last sale.