Need some help with an S'G' front band

[USGI]

I've got an S'G' that I've had for more than a year and hadn't fired yet. The sun was out here yesterday, so I grabbed some ammo and headed up into the hills to try it out. Other than needing a couple of clicks of windage on the rear sight, I thought I was doing really well. Then about half way through the first mag, I lost the sight picture - found the handguard laying loose on top of the rifle and blocking my view of the front sight. I've heard of this happening before, but I've never had it happen myself. I bought the SA M2 stock from What-a-Country and probably just didn't have the band screw tight enough - worried about deforming the wood, I guess. The band had moved forward, and the lug on the band spring hadn't caught it as it went past. After I took a look, I remembered how the band hadn't seemed to fit just right when I had put it together. Take a look at first two pictures and see if you think this looks normal?? To get it going again, I slid the band back until it just "latched" and then tightened it with a dime about a turn tighter than I'd had it. Which position do you think it's best to leave it in, and I wonder if there are any differences in the location of the tabs between band springs? It almost looks like the hole in the stock may be too far forward or something. I only had 10 rounds of reloads left to fill the second mag, so decided to try the 25yd. carbine target that I had printed and taken along. I got my first 7 consecutive rounds in the black, and then shot the rest at a pie plate. Not that good of a group, but I was trying to keep my balance while sitting in a wobbly lawn chair and resting my elbow on my knee. There was a little bit of snow and ice on the ground and the area was in the shade with temps somewhere in the high 20's. - also looking through the top part of my" varilux" glasses and had Harbor Freight "cheapo" safety glasses over top of those. Too many excuses without even mentioning being cold and old! The gun was a CMP "less wood" that was auctioned about 3 years ago and checks out fine for headspace, muzzle wear, and also seems to shoot good! - Bob

PS - I had never had this happen before, but the empty cases instantly freeze to the ground when it's cold and icy out. Soldiers probably wouldn't have noticed this, but maybe reenactors would. Frank, I took the Ford and had to use 4wd.

Information

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[firstflabn]

Kuhnhausen shows 1.25 -.05" from spindle centerline to break point and 1.694 +.010" from centerline of spindle to face of catch. Unless your hole is badly elongated or the stock is out of spec, the problem is with a band spring that's too long on that leg - maybe by 1/16" or better.

[DaveHH]

Looks like the hole is oblong. Stick a matchstick in the front of the hole and replace the spring and see if that helps, if so glue a matchstick in there.

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

" sitting in a wobbly lawn chair and resting my elbow on my knee." And you wonder about your grouping? That had to be a sight.

Hey Bob, I wonder how many soldiers had..............

[firstflabn]

The "point" on the rear end of the bandspring is the approximate centerline of the spindle; when installed it always makes the hole look eliptical.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

To me, the hole does look a little oblong like Dave said. I had one that was worn and it did the same thing.

Use a drill bit backward or something similar and push the band spring out from the other side of the stock. Then you can tell if the hole is really oblong or not.

If so, you can fill in the front part to set the spring back some. You might also replace the spring while you're at it. Sometimes the front of the spring wears a little.

[USGI]

Thanks to all of you guys for the suggestions. I have Kuhnhausen's book, but had forgotten those specs were in there. I actually had the band spring out of the stock when I first got it, to polish out some scratches - the hole wasn't messed up, unless it's in the wrong place. I've got a spare new band spring and some dial calipers, so will do some measuring tomorrow and let you guys know what I find. Harlan: What did I do wrong on the pictures so they don't work the same as they usually do when viewing? I can only see one at a time - and then have to close that one before I can open the next. I thought I sized them down the same as in the past, but maybe I got them too large?? Also, for you S'G' guys: What's the deal on the staking behind my front sight key? It's not there on my other two S'G's. Maybe the Underwood barrel is not the original? - Bob

[frankderrico]

Hey Bob, nice shooting.
Kicked the Ford in 4 wheel drive to get out and shoot, I'm lovin it!
Have a great weekend and Merry Christmas.....Frank

[USGI]

Frank, I've had the carbine apart all day measuring everything and trying to figure what the problem is. I figured out a better way to "peen" my loose trigger housing than on my other guns, so just finished that and decided to check the forum for a minute. I saw your S'G' stock project on the other thread. I hadn't even realized the M2 cut was so much more than just the small slot for the selector that's visible with the gun assembled. I know it will come out looking right when you are done! The cause of my band location problem turned out to be one of the ideas suggested in the above posts. I took some pictures, and will post them tomorrow. Merry Christmas to you and the whole Carbine Forum Crew! - Bob

[USGI]

Here's what I found checking out the band spring and the SA stock: The new band spring and the old one were nearly identical in all critical dimensions, except the lug of the old one looked slightly rounded. I decided to go with the new one. The hole didn't look that bad, but wasn't as tight as one in an old Robert Irwin stock. I thought the hole must be at an angle, so inserted an 1/8" welding rod - could immediately see the problem. The pictures taken on the counter top and with the square, show the difference. The one with the straight hole is the Robert Irwin stock. I measured the distance from the welding rod to the place where the band goes and found the hole about .05" off - close to 1/16" forward of where it should be. I decided there wasn't an easy fix, so put a piece of a flat wooden toothpick at the front edge of the hole before installing the new band spring. It's not fixed right, but a little better than it was. The last picture is for Jim - it's my "shootin' chair" taken last January when there wasn't any ice for it to slide around on! - Bob