1871/84 Mauser

[mercman]

I'm looking at acquiring a 1871/84 Mauser. It is an Amberg with no battalion markings on the buttstock plate. I'm looking for someone who is familiar with these rifles to help me set value to offer the owner. The seller is declining to permit a three day non-firing inspection and just wants to sell it and be done with it. Supposedly the bore is in good condition.









More pics:

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[villiers]

I wouldn´t chance buying a black powder rifle without inspecting the action out of the stock. Rust pitting is usually to be found under the wood. And you would definitely need to view the bore. Apparently, quite a few 71/84 rifles were exported to the US straight out of storage that had never been issued (apart from colonial use, these Mausers were never used in action). But some had been through German colonial service and might not be in such good condition.

I am not a collector but it seems that lack of unit stamps etc. would lower the market value. The 71 & 71/84 rifles were "fully numbered", which means that every single part and even the smallest screw was stamped, so you would have to disassemble the gun to make sure. Replacing parts that are then not numbered to the gun would also reduce value. I have no idea what the US price might be, but in Europe they are available at somewhere around the 500€ mark. Loaded BP ammunition and good quality cases are available in the US and some people shoot them with nitro (I wouldn´t advise doing this).

The Mauser 71 and 71/84 were among the first metal cartridge guns to be issued to a national army and I am sure that they will increase in value.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Patrick Villiers is, of course, quite right (Patricks are always right, OK?).

I understand the unwillingness of the present owner to let it out of his hands for inspection. These rifles often lack one or more of the internal parts, such as the magazine spring, the cap on the end of the spring that stops the spring expanding forwards in to the loading mechanism when there is no cartridge left, and the odd lever thingy that separates the cartridges when loading, so that the system does not try to load 2 cartridges. I would not want to lend out a rifle with the risk of having it returned with one of these parts missing or replaced by an inferior example! But for this very reason, you must inspect the rifle thoroughly before purchase.

So a fair way of satisfying the interests of both parties is as follows:

You arrange to meet the seller, taking with you a proper set of screwdrivers that will not ruin the screw slots, plus cleaning rod, patches etc. - and an appropriate amount of cash.
You agree on "This is the price I will pay you, cash, on the spot, no further haggling, if I can remove the action from the stock here, right now, in front of you, clean and inspect the bore and barrel channel, and am satisfied with the result."

If the seller was, for instance, myself, with a good conscience, knowing that all is OK beneath the surface, the response would be something like "OK; but as it is my gun, I'd rather dismantle it myself."

Good idea? - No risks for the seller or buyer (apart from your ability to evaluate what you see!).


Patrick

[MeatMarket]

These rifles often lack one or more of the internal parts,

What would be the reason for this notorious lack of internal parts?

[Badger]

You'll find a 125 pic photo montage of an "all correct" with clear detailed markings 1887 I.G. (Infanterie-Gewehr) Model 71/84 (11mm) Mauser (click here), displayed in the Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)

1887 I.G. (Infanterie-Gewehr) Model 71/84 (11mm) Mauser
(Manufactured at Amberg Arsenal in 1887)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Perhaps go to the link for Keith Doyan in that entry and see if there's contact information for him, if you don't have any luck getting an answer here.

Hope that helps ...

Regards,
Doug

[Patrick Chadwick]

What would be the reason for this notorious lack of internal parts?

Cannibalizing, I think.

[gunner]

(Patricks are always right, OK?).

What will this statement say?

But in this case mercman, you can count on them! Would be a fair deal.

[villiers]

What will this statement say?

But in this case mercman, you can count on them! Would be a fair deal.

Think it means that I´m still learning the black art of black powder. But I´ve made quite some progress and hope to be able to impress with scientific data on New Year´s Day (or set fire to house).

[Patrick Chadwick]

the cap on the end of the spring that stops the spring expanding forwards in to the loading mechanism when there is no cartridge left,

A serious warning to anyone handling an M71/84: If the loading tray will not open fully DO NOT FORCE IT.

This actually happened to a collector I know, whose specialization is handguns, but who had picked up an M71/84:

He showed it to me, noting that he could not open the breech fully to load rounds into the magazine. The loading tray would not descend completely. Fortunately I knew a bit more about these gadgets, and warned him not to try and open it by force. The cap on the end of the spring was missing, so the end of the spring had pushed right forwards underneath the loading tray. Attempting to fully open the breech by force would have resulted in the end of the spring being totally distorted. And that is a very long spring to make...

If you have this problem (and you only know what the cause was AFTER you have dismantled the rifle) then the only way to sort it out is to remove the cap at the front end of the magazine and remove the spring. You will have to "unwind it; i.e. in effect unscrew it so that the end comes out wthout snagging. When the spring comes out without the cap on the end, then you know what the trouble was.


Patrick

[Calif-Steve]

This one looks like an early 1960's import, likely ex-Spain. Likely near new barrel, but do check the bore! Looks clean and not messed with, I would likely go for it. Don't see too many, so I'll guess $300.00. Is that in the ball park?