HRA "correct grade" Garand in 7.62x51 Federal Ordnance import marks. New guy post !

[littlejoe]

Hello,

I'm new to Milsuprs.com and wanted to say "Hello" and ask a question.

I recently purchased what appears to be a "correct" grade HRA in caliber 7.62x51 that has me scratching my head. I was told these parts were exported in the late 50's to a middle eastern country as spares, never used and imported by Federal Ordnance. Once back in the USA the parts were "BUILT" into a complete rifle. In fact there is a Federal Ordnance So El Monte stamp on the flat, vertical magazine tines below the stock line. ALL major parts are marked HRA with drawing numbers that begin with 65, including the 10-54 marked barrel and the receiver. The receiver is not nearly as well finished as my 2 SA's nor IHC. I have read about "rewelded" receivers and I do not believe this one has been, but I am not an expert on the matter so I'm open to education. The heal of the receiver is marked H&R Arms w/ a 5,51x,xxx serial number and the drawing number on the forward part of the receiver next to the Fed Ord import stamp is a 65 drawing number like the rest of the parts. There are no machine marks on the outside, nor inside for the receiver and everything looks straight when you place a straight edge against flat or lined surfaces. I also looked the barrel over to see if it looked like someone "sleeved" a different barrel on the breach end and it appears to be one continuous piece of metal.

The last owner sold it as a .308 and shot .308 in it. A 7.62x63 will NOT chamber. There is NOT a white plastic spacer in the magazine well. He said he bought it from a gentleman 18 years ago and does not know if it has a "Navy Collar" or not.

My question is:

1. Since this does not appear to be a re-barrel could/did HRA make 7.62x51 barrels in 1954 for export. Or more likely it has a sleeve.

Any experience with, knowledge of or thoughts on this rifle. It is a beautiful rifle with a perfect fit and function.

Thanks Joe

Information

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[browningautorifle]

I think you'll find it's a sleeved barrel. The gun should be marked with 7.62 in some very visible way if it was a correct barrel and not a sleeve. The only marking I don't see much is the RS40. I don't know what that is. But it should say 7.62 in clear. I have one myself and a 30 cal too.

[littlejoe]

Thanks Jim,

I have not had the upper and lower hand guards off yet, but 7.62 is not plainly marked anywhere readily visible. I have seen photos of what it looks like and it is plainly marked in the photos, but not on this rifle.

I think it is sleeved as well and will find out as time goes on.

I'm hoping it is just a nice, plain original mid fifties HRA that has a sleeve.

I was told the original shipment was part of a "contract" for Garands for export to foreign allies in the mid east. I think they were beginning to think about 7.62 as a cartridge of the future. Maybe that is where the sleeve comes in. Not much information on the internet.

Regards Joe

[littlejoe]

Also, does anyone have any idea what or why a number would be electric penciled on the bolt.

[browningautorifle]

Normally the serial of the number of the rifle would be marked on the bolt to aid in accountability. Not because they didn't want them interchanged. They'll all go from one rifle to another without issue. It's just if someone loses a bolt, they want to know who it was. I'm not saying this is a standard practice. You practically never see it. I would suggest it happened after the rifle left US property. Some were marked because the rifle had been selected for accuracy reasons and they didn't want to upset the parts selection. That was Israeli M14s though...

[littlejoe]

Jim,

One last question. I want to shoot this rifle some, not a lot, but occasionally.

I am aware of the speed/pressure limitations ( no commercial ) on the 30-06 because of op rod damage but have not seen anyone talking about shooting their 308 Garands.

Do you know of any limitations on shooting commercial / NATO 308 ammo through a sleeved Garand.

Thanks Joe

[Bob Seijas]

Bolts were serialed to keep them with the rifle. Bolts will certainly interchange, but you could have headspace problems with a different one. Europeans took interchangeability much less seriously than US Ordnance did, so numbered many parts including stocks. Some of the AFPGs we recently examined had numbered bolts.

BTW, the rifle doesn't look welded to me, and the front is HRA. To make sure, remove the clip latch and look for signs in the slot, that's often revealing.

[browningautorifle]

I shoot military ball in mine right now. I've had a quantity of Canadian ball and LC match that I've used over the last year. I'll load my own after that with the Hornady 150 FMJs I procured with Winchester cases. These rifles are a bit picky and it's best to use all one headstamp and if possible one lot number for best accuracy. NOW all that said, you may not get the same accuracy out of an insert that you would out of a criterion barrel, but it won't be bad. Should be OK. I've done it before and had no problems.

Bob, I believe you would know about the serialization thing, after all you were in the US military and I was Canadian. So you used that sort of thing. Mine thing was FNs. But, why don't you see more bolts serialized? This is one of only a half dozen I've seen.

[littlejoe]

Thank you Jim and Bob. Best Regards Joe

[Bob Seijas]

Actually, Jim, the Army doesn't use serials except when there is some advantage to keeping them together, as in match rifles where consistency is everything. As you know, absolute interchangeability was a religion with US Ordnance, so numbering parts to a receiver was unnecessary. An exception was the M1C because G&H essentially custom fit the scope mounting equipment to each rifle. As SA pointed out in its criticism of the G&H system, "parts will only interchange by lucky accident."