Lee Enfield ID

[flinter]

How do you ID an Enfield
I have one that my father and I bought in the early 70s
It was used then and what Im sure would be called a sporter version
There is 111 on the wrist band and what looks like 1916 above that
Serial is 3xxx

Information

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[Jollygreenslugg]

G'day Flinter,

Sounds like you have a SMLE/No1. On the right hand side of the buttsocket/wristband, the information gives details of what you have. You have 1916 and III, so that's another good sign. You'll find a serial number on the rear of the bolt handle. Does this match the serial number on the right hand side of the receiver?

On our own Milsurp Knowledge Library, there are pages with images of these rifles which are helpful in comparing to what you have. Here is one showing a rifle like yours;

1917 ShtLE MkIII*
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=21

Compare your rifle to what you see there, and please let us know how it is similar and how it is different.

Actually, the whole Milsurp Knowledge library is worth a look. You can find many standard and rare rifles there. It is down the main forum page of this site.

If you're able to post pics, that always helps. Also, feel free to ask any questions. Lee-Enfields are rifles to be used and enjoyed.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Matt

[flinter]

Thanks for the reply
The serial numbers on the bolt ,reciever and barrel match
It looks like the only thing different is it has a sport stock (too Bad)
I know for a fact it has not been fired since 1972
Havent had mutch luck up loading pictures yet
Plan on a trip to the range soon


Willie

[flinter]

In studing the pictures I find the "wings " to protect therear sights have been removed and new wood added to the notchon top of the stock
In front of the sight on the side I find a mark like the one from the volly sight
Onthe bottom I found another filled hole (with wood)opposite the rear sight
Any idea what this was from?

[Claven2]

The filled in areas are where the rear sight protector was attached.

[flinter]

the brass colored disk and screw on the butt
What would that have held in place ?
Mine has replacment wood in that hole
I have the brass butt plate with the compartment behind it

[Jollygreenslugg]

The brass disc and screw didn't hold anything else in place. That disc was marked with unit information pertaining to the rifle. The regimental details were stamped into the disc. During 1916, the stock disc was omitted, as having unit details on rifles gave the Germans information as to who was in the trenches opposite, and also it was realised that deleting the disc sped up production. Many buttstocks had been made but not yet fitted to rifles, and these sometimes had the hole for the disc plugged with wood.

Other rifles later had stock discs removed and plugged.

Cheers,
Matt

[flinter]

Thanks
This is a great forum for finding infomation on these guns

Willie

[Claven2]

Actually Matt, most of the ww1 era gun built with butts machined for the disk after 1916 either had a blank disc installed (no info stamped on it) or the inlet was simply left empty.

As I understand it, the filled holes were most often filled during a rifle's time in India after 1919, or less commonly, during British rebuilds in the 20's and 30's.

By late WW1, the only maker still possibly fitting unit disc inletted butts was LSA, though they certainly stopped doing so by mid-1918.

That being said, after WW1 concluded, there was a massive effort in India to overhaul the worn rifles in store. Rifle furniture often got swapped around in the bins and you sometimes see pre-WW1 butts on much later guns, usually with the butt stamped with the early (pre-1941) Ishapore ISA roundel. Many of these guns have no Ishapore Screw, the screw generally being only fitted to non-wire wrapped guns that went through armory inspection or refurb in the 1940's and later. (wire-wrapped guns got a heavier bolt).

England also refurbed rifles in this time frame (1919 to late 1920's), but on a smaller scale. Remember, at this time, the emphasis was on demobilizing troops owing to the fact that the "war to end all wars" was over, and hence, why keep arms enough to equip millions when the standing peacetime army was measured in tens of thousands? England actually sold the many of its SMLE's to other countries and to sportsmen all over the world at this time - a fact that was to come back and bite them after Dunkirk 20 years later... though some of those guns were donated back to the army by private sportsmen in 1940.

Back on topic...

To further muddy the waters, it is likely that some guns were fitted with unit marking discs during the inter-war years, depending upon the unit and the issue purpose of the rifle in question. visual evidence would suggest that some 1920's issue guns would have had the unit disc re-instated, but for marking with a 2 or 3 digit rack number, not unit markings. it's possible unit-level armorers fitted discs independently, as needed. We sometimes encounter matching 1920's made BSA guns with British or Canadian issue markings fitted with discs with what appear to be rack numbers. There are also period instructions on how to locate and drill the inlet holes for them.

In general, however, if your gun has a wood plug in the hole, the purist opinion would be to leave that plug there as it is correct and was done in service.