Remy 1903A4 Sniper - The genuine article?

[ThirtyAughtSix]

Thanks for your thoughts, Chuck.

Can anyone else give theirs?

[mike radford]

In the shows I frequent in the South East US, that rifle would likely sale near $3000. The M82 scopes, although not original to the rifle, have gotten pretty expensive.

[JGaynor]

I had not noticed it before but the nomenclature on your prospective rifle appears to have the the trailing "3" struck out and a "4" added. This not common we have probably seen and discussed this alteration before. It is another telltale mark done at some rebuild facilities.

Attachment 33450

As far as the scope is concerned it was definitely not on the rifle when it rolled out the door of Remington.

From the scope serial number and the format of the federal stock number it is definitely Lyman manufacture and would date to no earlier than late 1945.

On 30 Oct 1956 Ordnance officially authorized the use of any remaining M73, M81 or M82 Telescopic Sights on the A4 rifle if the Primary scope (M73B1) and the approved alternate (M84) were unavailable. So while the M82 might not be original it can be considered correct. It's a safe bet that virtually no one has an A4 with the "original" scope still mounted.

I do have a few questions for you.

Is the "P" on the grip in a circular surround, a square or is it just by itself. The "P" indicates the rifle was proof fired. Changing a barrel is, for example, the type of work where you would expect to see the rifle proof fired.

Concerning values it is really hard for us here in the states or Canada to make a gues on a fair UK price. You might want to check with some of our european members - Promo (Georg) is a good guy. I believe there is also an auction house in Munich that has had some A4's recently.

At a US gun show a price of $3000. to $3500. is about right. On a Civilian Marksmanship Program Auction the same rifle will go for more than $5000. in a heartbeat.

Good luck and let us know if we can help further.

Regards,

Jim

[ThirtyAughtSix]

Thank you Mike & Jim.

Unable to inspect the 'P' myself so unsure on this one, Jim.

I've looked at similar items within Europe & will have to give the purchase of this rifle some serious thought.

[Promo]

03A4's usually sell between 2400 and 4000 Euros, depending upon the condition and originality (Z-Prefix etc.). Considering the new stock and the replacement barrel I'd rather rate it at the low end. But usually all the M1903 (and abbreviations) in UK are more expensive than anywhere else in Europe. Would be interested within how much the seller is asking for this rifle, if you could let me know.

Also, I do have a spare military Weaver 330C around that I'd be interested in trading with the M82 as this is one of the glasses that is lacking in my collection. If you're interested, let me know!

[Neal Myers]

There rifles were never, ever, returned to the factory for any reason. Minor repairs were done at low level repair facilities, major repairs & rebuilding was done at US arsenals. Based on the parked & replaced parts, this one is likely a rebuild. Below is the Springfield Armory rebuild stamp:


Lack of a rebuild stamp probably indicates a New Old Stock replacement by a civilian owner. Installation of a 1903 barrel was undoubtedly done by a civilian owner, also. My thought is that this is a rebuilt rifle that was sporterized for hunting, & subsequently an attempt was made to bring it back to military configuration when these rifles became collectible. In the US, I would pay substantially less than the normal "arsenal rebuild" price range.



The "most correct" WW2 era scope would be the M73B1, difficult to find & expensive. If it were mine, I would keep the M82 scope, as it is absolutely correct for a Korean War era rebuild. Besides, the correct 3/4" USGI issue scope rings needed to install a 330-series scope are likely to be extremely difficult to find.

[ThirtyAughtSix]

Promo, the seller is asking a higher premium than your estimate. It is more than I think the piece is worth, regardless or everyone's helpful comments here but the issue surrounding the price really centres on the fact this example is so hard to find in the UK.

Neal, you've come to the same conclusion I have.

I believe based on my own experience and knowledge, combined with the superb comments offered in this post, that I'm going to let this rifle go.

Thank you again, everyone, for your insights.

[JGaynor]

There rifles were never, ever, returned to the factory for any reason. Minor repairs were done at low level repair facilities, major repairs & rebuilding was done at US arsenals. Based on the parked & replaced parts, this one is likely a rebuild. {snip}.

The rifle has definitely had the barrel and most likley the stock replaced or refinished. As a matter of fact Remington was awarded a contract (Rochester WO-30-115 ORD 2031) in 1945 for the refurbishement of 03's, 03-A3's and 03-A4's. I believe one of the hall marks of the Remington refurbs are the shims that were installed under the rear tang to correct the forend pressure on the barrel. The refurbing was done at a flat rate of $10.42 per rifle. Barrel replacement was not included and any other parts were provided by the government. What was included was a light sanding of the stock, installation of the aforementioned shims and reproofing with The Remington 7/16" diameter Circled "P".

Regards,
Jim

[Promo]

ThirtyAughtSix, nevertheless I'd give it a try and explain to him *WHY* the rifle is not worth what he's asking for it. Mention the replaced stock, the parkerizing on bolt etc. and the replaced barrel - plus tell him what you're willing to pay for it. I've done that several times on other items and in most cases people understand you and accept your offer.

And I have to admit I did *NEVER* see a 03A4 in UK for sale. All of my three 03A4's (two Z-Prefix) I currently own came from either Germany or Austria. If I remember correctly, I've also been once offered a demilled one from France, but too expensive and after all would just have been another "part gun". Recently a 03A4 sold on eGun Germany for roughly 2800 Euros, it was badly described and even worse pictured, but I think the price was fair.

[Chuckindenver]

the last A4 i sold went to Germany, same buyer also purchased a M12 trench gun..not sure what the exchange rate is, but 3200.00 US, for the A4, and 2500 US for the trench.
his importer met me face to face, with FFLin hand, and handed me cash..