Question regarding Savage No.4 Mk1*(T)'s

[Ridolpho]

I've been reading a bit about these lately and am curious about one detail. In the numerous threads about these rifles the comment is frequently made that the Savage sniper rifles may not have "TR" or "T" markings. I have yet to find a post or reference explicitly stating that anyone has or has seen a Savage conversion that DOES have these marks. Thanks, in advance, for any info.

Ridolpho

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Brian Dick]

I've had several Savage No.4Mk.1T rifles and none have the TR. It was a selection mark as done at BSA when the rifles were tested for accuracy and selected for the ride to H&H for conversion. You won't see it on early 1941 or 1942 dated BSA rifles as many of the published "sniper" markings weren't standardized until 1943.

[Badger]

For those looking for additional information on Savage No.4(T) sniper rifle conversions, check the MKL and read this article by Advisory Panel member Lance:

1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope)

Regards,
Doug

[Warren]

To toss the cat among the pigeons.....
Attachment 34540Attachment 34541Attachment 34542

[Peter Laidler]

At the start of the H&H conversion programme and in an effort to production line the process, H&H needed a constant quality to work from as opposed to the hit and miss quality of some trials stuff, dribs and drabs from Maltby and some from BSA plus stuff from Savage that made production lining the process impossible plus access to the quantities was near impossible to achieve. They set aside a batch of Savages that the most constant quality. Soon, stocks from BSA were available in increasing numbers, were the nearest and so it was with BSA they stayed. So some early Savages were converted, as were a very few Maltby's and as we now know, one or two VERY early and very few Fazakerley's although I've never seen one.

The next statement is made from the common sense point of view and not from the mouth of Sid Harvey. I would just assume that at peak times when stocks of BSA rifles were short, then H&H would dip into their stockpile of 'reserves' and get on with them until more came in from BSA

At the end of the war, those 'reserve stockpiles' of BSA's and Savages were converted and returned to Ordnance less telescopes.

Why were they converted? Well, after the order to cease production, no more rifles were delivered from BSA and in order to use up existing stocks of spares and parts already produced, they completed what was already there and what they could. They got paid MORE for what they'd completed than than what they had left in hand

[Ridolpho]

Mr. Laidler: Thanks for the informative post! It follows from what you say that there was no accuracy related selection process at Savage, hence no "TR" marked on the wrist. It also stands to reason that a completed (H&H) conversion with scope would commonly get the "T" on the left action body as on the example shown by Warren. Meanwhile, the scopeless No.4 Mk1*'s seem to get only the "S51" under the butt?

Ridolpho

[Peter Laidler]

The T was suppoosed to be marked at H&H and when I went ther with Roger Mitchell and Sid Harvey for the whole day, just to look at the empty factory, Sid Harvey wandered into the rest room which was the old Enfield examiners bay and pointed out everything that was still identiifiable including the marking stamps - I had three of the 'T',s including one with a badly deformed leg to the T that shopuld be EASY to identify on a rifle., I also picked up and kept the S51 stamps......

I didn't see a separate 'S' but looking back, this would have been applied by H&H when the rifle was stripped and side tracked.

Anyway............ this has all been said many times and will come out in book form late in the Summer. Are you ready Roger?

[Roger Payne]

Ready & waiting DPL. Had my practice retirement do last night!
I have three Savage's & none are typically marked as per the later war 'norm' - I'll have a look at what exatly is on them later....