Does anyone know if sniper rifles were issued to 2nd AIF for service in Middle east

[gwahlert]

Hi Guys,

In writing a book on Aust Army sniping I've hit a bit of a hurdle. Going through all the Aust War Memorial records (eg war diaries, Establishment & Equipment Tables, photo's. etc) I have been unable to determine if the 2nd AIF's inf battalions were issued with sniper rifles for their service in Middle East, Greece or Crete. This includes old WWI SMLE MkIII* T, SMLE Mk.III* H or even P14s. The 9th Div appears to have had them by the time of their defence of Tobruk in Apr 1941, and the Indep / Cmdo Coys had them in early 42, and the battalions had them for the Pacific Campaign (1942 on), but I can find no evidence that they were available for Western Desert Campaign (eg. Bardia), Greece or Crete, even though the Germans definately had proper sniper rifles.
Can anyone assist?
Cheers, Glenn

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Peter Laidler]

Where you get operations - and even peace time where you get pooled resources you'll find that units are issued with whatever's in the Ordnance dumps at the time. For a start, the desert isn't a suitable place for sniping but Greece and Crete, where the poms were, then if they had snipers you can bet your socks that the rifles will have been issued out to the others too. Whether they were odds and sods or the by then standard No4T is a matter of pure conjecture

That's just my experience with weaponry, vehicles, spares, vehicles and as one who's had to eat Gurkha or Malay food for a week or so, even rations!

[trooper554877]

Where you get operations - and even peace time where you get pooled resources you'll find that units are issued with whatever's in the Ordnance dumps at the time. For a start, the desert isn't a suitable place for sniping but Greece and Crete, where the poms were, then if they had snipers you can bet your socks that the rifles will have been issued out to the others too. Whether they were odds and sods or the by then standard No4T is a matter of pure conjecture

That's just my experience with weaponry, vehicles, spares, vehicles and as one who's had to eat Gurkha or Malay food for a week or so, even rations!

Bit spicy for my liking!!

[muffett.2008]

Fish heads and rice.


But to add to the original Question, An ex 2/2M.G Battalion member, who belonged to my rifle club until he passed, used to tell the odd story of using their best marksmen to protect the gun teams from sniper fire.
It seems that the opposition(not those ones with 5 reverse gears) would try to pinpoint the guns and take the crew out at the start of an attack.
He was employed in this role for awhile, it seems that being a rifle club man got you some cushy jobs sometimes.
I guess it was up to the unit C.O, but I remember reading something similar with one of the Inf. Battalions in the desert campaigns, 48th?

[trooper554877]

Fish heads and rice.


But to add to the original Question, An ex 2/2M.G Battalion member, who belonged to my rifle club until he passed, used to tell the odd story of using their best marksmen to protect the gun teams from sniper fire.
It seems that the opposition(not those ones with 5 reverse gears) would try to pinpoint the guns and take the crew out at the start of an attack.
He was employed in this role for awhile, it seems that being a rifle club man got you some cushy jobs sometimes.
I guess it was up to the unit C.O, but I remember reading something similar with one of the Inf. Battalions in the desert campaigns, 48th?

but did they have sniper rifles as we know it?
Could have been the 2/28th Bn.
korean rat packs are even worse!
French foriegn legion are nearly all tinned fish as well, at least the oes we had.
cheers fellas
ned

[Peter Laidler]

Shooting a rifle prone in the desert is like firing a WOMBAT anti tank gun in many ways. The most unpopular bit is that you can never hide the xxxxing dust cloud and secondly, you can be assured that they WILL see you and then the mortars start. The ranging shot will always be too far, but the next one will be on target!

[Mk VII]

There wasn't much sniping done in the desert and units which had got un-sniper-conscious in the Middle East had to learn the lesson all over again in NW Europe.

[muffett.2008]

I'm afraid I would disagree about the middle east being all desert.
There is certainly a mixed bag of terrain, represented in the pictorial shots of our units there, ranging from loverly mediteranian climate areas, rocky mountainous terrain, snow, the list goes on.

[Peter Laidler]

It's not that muffer......., you've got to hide and stalk, gather intelligence and if need be, shoot. AND, be within walking back distance too. So while you're fighting armies that abide by codes of war, things are different but they change when you're not. And working afar in pairs is not healthy. I'd really like to be able to say more

[muffett.2008]

That's now Pete, back then it was opertunity and high profile targets.
Stupid tank crews not closed down, anti tank gunners, patrols trying to pinpoint key locations.
Alex Starkey, the bloke I mentioned earlier, told me he was with a team training as a ski team to carry out the odd Op. but it was later canned.