Thursday delivery of a Martini 'Muscate'.

[Anzac15]

As the title says, I am taking possession of a Martini Muscate carbine on Thursday. It is chambered for the .577/450 cartridge, and it is, as they say, 'Arab decorated'. It is one of three rifles brought back from Saudi Arabia in 1958, one of which I already own. (a Gras cavalry carbine that can be seen on the General Milsurps forum) I've heard of these variants, but this is the first one I've seen in person. I undestand there are two spellings of 'Muscate', depending on who they were intended for. Any truth in this? Will have pics Thursday!

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[A square 10]

looking forward to the photos , congrats

[Anzac15]

And here are the pics![/IMG][/IMG][/IMG]

---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------

[3Miles2Gburg]

Anzac15 - confirming that yes - there are two spellings of Muscat/Muscate on these Belgian made guns. Beyond that, I don't have an explanation why except all I've seen referenced over the years come out of the Middle East. I have about a dozen and with one exception they are all short and medium length and there are at least nine different configurations among them in barrel length, flat or round spine on the barrel, grooves or smooth spine on barrel, grooves part way or fully engraved down the barrel etc. The one exception is in a sporting/hunting configuration for export to Persia with a Persian lion/sword/sun. Several unsubstantiated internet sources allege that the original export destination of many of the Muscats may have been Oman - if there is any substance to that then perhaps the positive association of "Muscat" marked Martinis established a sort of marketing brand/brand recognition for subsequent export lots to the region (similar to "Tower" on muskets and "Enfield" in the Pakistan/Afghan Khyber areas).

Your specimen looks like one of the previous owners cherished it and carried it for a lifetime. Too bad it cannot talk.

ATB

Pike

[Anzac15]

Thanks for the conformation on the spelling, Pike. Youre absolutely right. If only they could talk!

[Anzac15]

Completely disassembled the Muscat yesterday, and gave it a good cleaning. Found more Belgian markings under the barrel. The markings include the ELG in an oval under the crown, and the stylized letters EL. I understand this was a very seldom used marking, and was discontinued in 1924. Is this correct? I've a feeling that this Muscat was probably used in the Great War, and who knows what else. The only handmade part on the whole piece is a firing pin hammered out of a piece of metal. All other numbers appear to match on this carbine.

[Patrick Chadwick]

and the stylized letters EL. I understand this was a very seldom used marking, and was discontinued in 1924. Is this correct?

Not quite. The curly EL (if that is what you mean) was the provisional black powder proof from 1852 up to 1924. After 1924 it was only used for smoothbore barrels.

The only handmade part on the whole piece is a firing pin hammered out of a piece of metal.

What about the trigger? That looks rather crude compared with a genuine M-H trigger. Likewise I am not sure about the backsight assembly, the sling swivel on the buttstock, and, of course, the buttstock itself.

[Anzac15]

The trigger is Belgian. Has the number 16 on it, as do all smaller metal parts. Very crisp in manufacture. Firing pin, as far as manufacture, sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of it!
Really fascinated with this little carbine.

[Anzac15]

Patrick, any idea what the four circles on the knoxform are? They are on both sides.

[Clash77]

Very unique find! Where do you find all these beauties?