Here she is.... The one I can't get to run reliably.... What do I have....

[ABPOS]

These are just the outside pics. I'm planning on tearing it down later. '

So, you have all helped me with troubleshooting, in which I figure the two things I need is to shim my trigger guard and probably tear apart my gas system. Haven't done those yet, but I'd like to show you all it anyways.

Also, my right front sight is definitely canted to the right. And for some reason in order for it to zero at shorter ranges, I need my rear sight to way to the left. Which seems odd to me. And then when I shot it at 300 it was hitting way to the left. I can't remember what it was doing at 200. But at 50 and 100 it was basically on. It's been a while since I shot it. I put it away as I was frustrated with it's reliability and accuracy. As you can see, it's got 1/4" of M2 Tracer sticking out of it. But I don't know what the chamber is.

I was thinking maybe some pics might help you all diagnose, and possibly tell me what I got. If there was something I didn't know. Is that an older style top handguard? It sure looks like it matches the bottom though.
























That's another irritating issue. That's where I have to have it elevated to, in order to zero at 50. I'll run out at longer ranges. I guess I need a taller front sight.







Thanks for looking!

Information

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[Patrick Chadwick]

Also, my right front sight is definitely canted to the right. And for some reason in order for it to zero at shorter ranges, I need my rear sight to way to the left.

That sounds as if the sight is not just canted, but skewed, so that as the slider is moved up and down the range, it is also moving sideways***. Get that fixed before worrying about anything else. Then take a very slow, careful look at the muzzle. It may be OK, but from the photo I am not sure that it is truly symmetrical. And I think I can see some corrosion (I hope I am wrong).

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------

I guess I need a taller front sight.

Other way around! You need a lower blade to bring the backsight down at the same range. Easy enough to file off a bit - if you are good with a file.
But since it is always difficult to file a bit back on again, do not touch the foresight blade until you have got everything else sorted out - above all, that dubious backsight!

***Or, of course, you are holding the rifle on a cant. Get someone to check your position when you are shooting - it's not easy to look at yourself!

[ABPOS]

Hmmmmm, you make good points. I'm not sure how I would fix that rear sight, if it is sliding up to the let. It kind of looks like it from that picture. I'll have to look at it closer. But OK, yeah, lower front sight. I do think the front sight is definitely cocked to the right though. Like the barrel was indexed a bit off or something. Is that possible?

Crown: bad? That wouldn't be good. It never has been a tack driver.

[INLAND44]

You seem to be rather new to shooting in general. First, the bullet path describes a ballistic trajectory, so it will be at different heights along that trajectory, so it may not strike the bulls eye at both 50 yds and 100 yds. Second, any wind blowing at the range will certainly affect the carbine bullet, particularly over 100 yds. Third, what is a 'right front sight'? The rear sight looks okay. It is normal to have the sight base drifted a little to one side or another to correct aiming, and the aperture should be near the center position when the gun is sighted in, and it is. The thing that is wrong is, you never use the elevation adjustment of the aperture except to set it for longer ranges. Elevation is corrected as stated above by adjusting the front sight. Before making this permanent adjustment, you should have everything else repaired to acceptable condition/function (if the front sight blade is bent, replace the sight), and you should use the best ammo you can get for sighting in. Winchester .30 Carbine is about as good as it gets. Once you get to that point, fire at the 25 yard target with the rear sight on '1'. Lower the front sight blade until all shots are at or slightly above the point of aim, none lower. Then shoot at 100 yds. All shots should be above the POA, about 6" is normal. Notice that the rear sight lowest position is marked '1 - 1.5', meaning it is used out to about 150 yards. The carbine was designed to use the '6:00 hold' so the sight post does not obstruct the target. This means generally that the trajectory carries the bullet above the sightline except for the near and far zeroes for each rear sight setting.

[DaveHH]

when viewed from the rear well above the sights, show lots of off center things. My good Winchester has some off center on the barrel probably from a poorly done index mark or who knows. The fact that it shoots dead on is what matters. Point being; if the Type 2 sight was added later and requires an off set in the aperture to shoot, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The fact is that it shoots to point of aim is what is important. If you have adjustment remaining after centering, I would think that this would be a perfectly usable weapon to the Army. My NPM does not have as much misalignment with the original IBM barrel, maybe better quality, maybe luck?

[ABPOS]

You seem to be rather new to shooting in general. First, the bullet path describes a ballistic trajectory, so it will be at different heights along that trajectory, so it may not strike the bulls eye at both 50 yds and 100 yds. Second, any wind blowing at the range will certainly affect the carbine bullet, particularly over 100 yds. Third, what is a 'right front sight'? The rear sight looks okay. It is normal to have the sight base drifted a little to one side or another to correct aiming, and the aperture should be near the center position when the gun is sighted in, and it is. The thing that is wrong is, you never use the elevation adjustment of the aperture except to set it for longer ranges. Elevation is corrected as stated above by adjusting the front sight. Before making this permanent adjustment, you should have everything else repaired to acceptable condition/function (if the front sight blade is bent, replace the sight), and you should use the best ammo you can get for sighting in. Winchester .30 Carbine is about as good as it gets. Once you get to that point, fire at the 25 yard target with the rear sight on '1'. Lower the front sight blade until all shots are at or slightly above the point of aim, none lower. Then shoot at 100 yds. All shots should be above the POA, about 6" is normal. Notice that the rear sight lowest position is marked '1 - 1.5', meaning it is used out to about 150 yards. The carbine was designed to use the '6:00 hold' so the sight post does not obstruct the target. This means generally that the trajectory carries the bullet above the sightline except for the near and far zeroes for each rear sight setting.

No, I'm not new to shooting. I've been shooting for a long time. However, I know sometimes I may sound a little ignorant, if I'm not getting my point across properly. And I have found this carbine to be more frustrating and have shot it less than other weapons. But I would think the fact that I knew what my carbine was doing at 300 must mean something. I'm betting a lot of people never shoot past 100.

I thought I've been clear a few times about the front sight. If you see in my post earlier, I stated that to me it looks like the front sight is canted a bit off center, to the right. Which would definitely make it hit left. But what seems odd about that is in order to zero at 50 (which is what I usually zero my rifles at) my REAR sight is off to the left. Which in my thinking, is kind of opposite of what I would suspect, since the front sight is canted to the right. I would think that the REAR sight would be more to the RIGHT in order to correct the front sight being somewhat to the right. I'll post a pic of that. As far as it hitting to the left at 300, yeah, I suppose that could've been wind drift. But it was pretty significant. I own 2 AR's and a Loaded M1A and I don't have these problems with it. Nor does my Garand or my 03A3. I've shot my O3A3 all the way to 600 with the irons and was on paper. I wasn't driving tacks or anything, but the point is I know how to shoot to some degree. Maybe not as well as you. But again, for some reason this particular weapon has had me scratching my head.

Furthermore, no other weapon I have has been as hard to make run well, which I posted a thread about earlier. My Garand had some teething problems, but once I smoothed them out, it's been 100%. If this one wasn't particularly dogging me, I wouldn't be on here asking questions about it.

Another thing about POI being 6" above the post. Is that something that is official? I have always zeroed my rifles with the POI being the top of the post. I like my pistols to do the same, although they don't always agree with me. Some of them seem to "shoot to the dot". Meaning lower down on the post. I don't really like that. But I don't really like a 6 O Clock hold / POI either. It seems very vague to me. And I don't think I'm the only one who is in that camp. I have discussed this with others. Now, if the carbine was "designed" to have a 6 O clock POI, I guess I'm in the wrong. But I don't zero my Garand that way or any other rifle. And you don't have to. My garand is about 7 clicks up, if my memory serves me correctly, to zero at 100 and from what I understand, that's AOK.

[imarangemaster]

NIce Carbine. As far as sights, my CMP Inland shoots about 1 to 1.5 inch high at 25 yards, about 5-6 inch high at 100 yards and about dead on at 150 yards. I use the 25 yard sight-in target. As for you feeding issue, I wish I was close to you so I could get my hands on the carbine and go through it for you.

Just a refresher:

Make sure recoil spring is 10 1/8" to 10 1/4" in length
Make sure magazine springs are oriented correctly
Make sure firing pin, ejector, and extractor move freely and significant spring tension on extractor and ejector.
I would tighten the trigger housing in the receiver lugs by peening the BOTTOM rear corner of the TRIGGER HOUSING lugs. That will push the trigger housing up tight against the receiver. DO NOT do anything to the receiver lugs.

[ABPOS]

Well maybe it's a moot point with what DaveHH said. But I tried to take a picture of it.

[ABPOS]

I don't recall saying I had a problem with elevation when shooting. Other than the fact that to zero, it had to be raised up to 200. I'll be honest, I don't particularly remember what distance I zeroed that at. That might've been at 25 meters. I'm going back through my targets I took pictures of early on, when I first got it.

But these are my issues: #1 reliability. Which I have a few things to work on that have been suggested. I'm still not sure I want to take that gas system off. I'm so concerned that it might be cross threaded. But I'll have a look at it. I'll shim the trigger guard / housing too. I did check the mag that I have in there, and the sping is the correct way. I'll check the other USGI ones I have. I would think they are fine, but I think imarangemaster has said he has seen even USGI ones be wrong at times.

#2. This canted sight deal. Maybe it's an issue, maybe it's not.
#3. The fact that I raise my elevation means my front sight might need some tweaking. I've been hesitant to take the front sight off for a couple of reasons. First off, if I order a new one, it might be expensive, and it might not be any better than the one I have. These are old guns. Secondly, I didn't want to mess up the finish or barrel by wacking away at something that's been on there forever and probably on there pretty good. I have never taken one off before.






This is when I first got it. My son is 11 now and my daughter 8. Man time flies.

[USGI]

Page 53 in TM9-1276 (Technical Manual) shows where a carbine should hit at 25 yards. Here's a copied image, but you should be able to download a better one if you do an Internet search. - Bob