.577 minie balls?

[Ridolpho]

Anyone out there know of a source in Canada (or that will ship to Canada) of .577 bullets suitable for use in a Snider? I have rifle, brass, dies, etc but don't want to get into casting bullets unless I absolutely have to. Purchased a decent 3 band MkIII with steel barrel and the (somewhat) improved action lock and am looking forward to giving it a try. Thanks.

Ridolpho

Information

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[gsimmons]

Try looking on the N-SSA website under sutlers. I think it's nssa.org. That's North South Skirmish Association. There are sutlers who have moulds etc. but may have bullets as well.

[Patrick Chadwick]

I have rifle, brass, dies, etc but don't want to get into casting bullets unless I absolutely have to.

That's what I hoped too, but I absolutely had to... In fact, I had to bore out a Minie mould to .590 to get satisfactory results. Plain .577s gave very poor accuracy and grouping. Fire off a couple with the.577, and then see how the case mouth is much, much wider than the .577 bullet. Keep on resizing the cases down to that, and your expensive Snider cases are not going to last long.

If you are really determined not to cast bullets of the proper size, then about the only solution is to patch the balls up to the appropriate diameter. And for that you need to know the bore diameter at the chamber end. Which you can determine as follows:

1) Turn up, or cut off from suitable bar stock, if you can find any, a brass or copper (but NOT steel) rod that is a loose fit inside the Snider chamber. It should be no longer than the max. length of a Snider cartridge (2") less the length of a bullet. So about 1 1/4" will do nicely. Do not make it longer, as you need to be able to insert it into the chamber - and get it out again with the bullet stuck on the end! So the diameter will have to be somewhat less than the Snider bore - try 1/2" diameter. Chamfer the ends to remove any sharp edges

2) You need a second piece of the brass rod about 1" long, so that the combined length of the rods is 2 1/4". I.e a bit longer then the max. Snider cartridge length. Here too, with chamfered ends.

3) Insert the longer section into the the chamber. Insert the second piece, lightly greased, behind it.

4) Drop a lightly greased Minie ball down the barrel to land on the first, longer piece, which will now serve as a brass anvil.

5) Take a suitable length of brass rod - no steel should be used, and you need the weight! Insert this rod into the bore, and whack it down on the Minie bullet.
- When I say whack, I do not mean use a hammer, which could bend the rod. It is sufficient to flick the rod down firmly into the bore, where its weight will hammer the bullet against the anvil, which will spread the skirt of the bullet to fill the bore.

6) You now have a bullet fairly jammed in the bore up against the anvil. If you had used a one-piece anvil, you would have great difficulty in extracting it. That is why you must use a two-piece anvil. Extract the shorter piece (use pliers, tweezers, whatever works).

7) Now tap the rod down the barrel again, and the expanded bullet plus the longer anvil section will pop into the breech and can be tipped out.

8) The diameter of the expanded skirt is the groove diameter at the breech end. Measuring the bore diameter is a touch trickier, And if it is a genuine British-made (i.e. not Nepalese) Snider, it will be a great deal more than .577". Something more like .590" to .600", I suspect.

Use this measurement to dimension a custom mould or paper patches.

9) If you are curious, take a second lightly greased Minie and drive it in at the muzzle end, and then right down the bore. If your Snider is like mine, the ball will start to fall free before it reaches the breech - the bore has a slight taper, being tighter at the muzzle. This is a good thing for accuracy, but means that a measurement at the muzzle end is misleading if you want to achieve a well-fitted cartridge at the chamber end.

- By well-fitted, I mean a cartridge that once fired, can be reloaded with little or no resizing and still hold the bullet adequately. The avoidance of unnecessary resizing not only saves the brass, but holds the bullet better on the bore center-line. This helps to improve accuracy. If you take a new or fully resized Snider case and compare it with a case fired in your rifle, you may well find that the difference in diameter is so large that a fully resized case would be sitting on the bottom of the chamber and so the bullet is noticeably off-center with respect to the bore. This is not good for accuracy - or for the cartridge, which can develop a slightly skewed base!

So paper-patched or custom bullets - either way, I recommend that you follow the steps described above if you want a Snider that does not merely go bang, but actually shows some accuracy.

And whichever path you take, you must use the Minies intended for the 2-band 1858 Navy model Enfield muzzleloader, with thick skirts. Otherwise your Snider will be, to use a phrase well-known to shooters of muzzleloader Enfields, "blowing the skirts" - another cause of poor shooting.

[Ridolpho]

Patrick: Thanks very much for the detailed discussion- makes great sense and I will give it a try. Looks like it will be a lengthy process getting some cartridges loaded but winter will be here soon anyway. My Snider is an 1871 LSA with a very shiny bore and good looking rifling.

Ridolpho

[Patrick Chadwick]

I'm glad if it helps! BTW, you can also use a simple .577 round ball instead of a Minie bullet, but it will require more hammering to get a good fit over a length that you can measure properly.

Alternative to 4) in previous post:

4a) It may be easier to insert the bullet from the chamber end, pushing the longer anvil section in behind it. If the anvil has a diameter such that it starts to enter the hollow of the base on the bullet, that will ensure that the skirt is easily expanded.

[browningautorifle]

Ridolpho, I have a mould I'll give you at the Calgary show if you come see me at the show.(Easter) I can also follow up on the info Patrick just passed on. I agree with him completely about casting. It's not that hard for this bullet and it's a needful thing.

[Ridolpho]

Thanks very much BAR, I'll send you a PM.

Ridolpho

[LocknLoad]

For your Snider- try R&R bullets in Maitland Ontario. He has a large list of cast lead bullets he has for sale. You can see his catalogue on his web site. I will be using the flat base .588 dia old style mini.

Cheers,
LocknLoad

[Ridolpho]

Thanks LocknLoad- I'll check out their website. Since the initial posting I've recieved helpful advice plus purchased (at very fair cost) a mould from one member and a small supply of minie's from another. This forum is great! Had my Snider out for a look yesterday and I can't wait to give it a try. While it's not perfect cosmetically, the bore is like a mirror with good looking rifling, action tight, etc (LSA, 1871, MkIII). Thanks again to everyone!

Ridolpho

[jsmosby]

Well, I've got an extra original single cavity mold on the loose if you change your mind.
John