M47C sportster recovery to T status?

[ArtioZen]

Thx again jmoore. I was hoping to guage from responses the sort of depth and detail (obsession?) that this rifle would be worthy of! Wilco the comment on no reproduction! I am glad not to overdress a pig! All of my antique and classic items around the house have to work to earn their keep (cars, gramphones, sewing machines etc) - so this will also be shot carefully and obsessively maintained and cleaned - and is definately a keeper!

So when I am looking for the forestock are there any specific marks or detials I should recapture? - I am constantly researching other M47C rifle photos and details!

There are No1 and No2 NOS furniture sets avaialble - as far as I know the forestocks are the same... Most sellers are ambiguous about the origin factory and marks on the items - any specifics to look for? I would like to get upper and lower items from one set if possible.

Now for a search on the bedding procedure and techniques - also need to save for expert help, if beyond my skills!

[jmoore]

You will need a No.4 Mk.I fore stock. The No.4 Mk.2 or No.4 Mk.I/2 forestocks are split at the rear end. Other than that, I'd just try and find a good condition stock of British origins. (As opposed to North American production.) As far as wood type, walnut would be my first choice, but it's not really all that important.

[Roger Payne]

As JM says go for walnut out of preference, as it will then match the rifle butt (not that a different wood or colour would matter re function). If you want to be really nerdy like me then have a look at the maker's mark on the underside of your rifle butt where it fits into the butt socket. There is a strong chance it will be either SL/N74, JC/N22, or HMCo. If you can identify the mark then you could look for front end woodwork of the same manufacturer. You have a really nice original 4T so I would endorse the advice to go for a genuine cheekpiece. It is likely to be in ash or beech, so a mis-match in colours compared to the rest of the woodwork is in fact the norm & nothing to bother about.

It is a very nice rifle.

ATB

[ArtioZen]

Thanks gents! - I will look for hte furniture makers mark when time and tools allow!

I am forming a long term plan to save and wait for the "right" parts. I may use the repro scope bracket to hold a Weaver K2.5 for ext years shoots and keep saving and then flip it for a step up or a genuine No32.

I have "lightly" solvent cleaned the barrel and received lots of copper residue on patch 4... so it will be a case of shoot, solvent clean, solvent shoot, clean until it stops coming! my other milsurp Britts were also oi/ copper residue fouled and took lots of short cleaning sessions! - I gues this helps bond with your rifle!

I removed and inspected that grey metal butt plate last night - it has 10-20 years of dust and resin residue under there - that may date its sporter surgery. The plate shows different wear marks than the butt - some on the butt may be from sanding as seperate pieces. the plate has very few marks and no dates - it has "# M189 2/2" on the butt side. I presume its orginal (so it will stay) until advice or research shows different. (I have seen one "original" rifle with brass and one with grey metal).

I have measured the distance between the screw holes for the cheek pad and am working with potential vendors on a NOS item - all seem very dark Maple! I will get used to the pied effect! Iwillpost more when I have - thanks again for the great info and encouragement!

[jmoore]

Cheekpieces not only are of random wood types (many look like oak to me), they also don't fit particularly well. So if the screw holes line up, be happy and drive on:



Beech:


Bad shot of an open grained wood (oak looking to me) cheekpiece:

[Peter Laidler]

L1A1 breakdown, I have been a British Army Armourer since 1963. That's not an enthusiastc amateur or someone who's learned after two weeks alongside someone else either. I have to tell you that not once in my whole career did I ever look, search or hunt around for the 'correct' parts or makers names. And as you can imagine, I have overhauled one or two No4's and T's in that time. Might I suggest that you rebuild it with the bog standard No4 parts that come from Ordnance, making sure only that they are serviceable and correctly fitted and that the rifle functions correctly and poerforms accurately afterwards.

Not once in my time as the sniper division Armourer at the School of Infantry at Warminster (I went back later as the engineering Officer too.....) did a sniper ever come back and ask for these parts to be fitted either. He wanted a solid, reliable accurate rifle. Given those things plus a few more that I can't remember, a sniper will ask you for nothing more

[ArtioZen]

jmoore - thanks for the excellent info and photo - as said before - worth a thousand words!

I am much closer to a genuine cheek piece, with screws holes that line up, via exchanged measurements.

Cheers!

[ArtioZen]

Peter - thank you sir! I agree, my ultimate goal is sold arsenal parts that work - I am just working out my journey there and making sure that nothing is detrimental or irreversable. The world seems inundated with clone, replica and reproduction - I am slowly working with a few internet vendors and to ask questions to reveal OE pedigree. I bought this rifle for the receiver and barrel and have since been reviewing all parts attached to it to make a list and "bring it back" I am delighted to work out that more of it is original than I thought. It will also see the light of day and be in the view of fellow enthusiasts. I appreciate and respect your input, status and history - I was a 5 year indentured apprentice in Coventry and it lead me to the peak of my trade and profession. Previous to that I never had any complaints about any arm I was issued - I wish I had paid more attention to the devices and techniques used - alas it was lost to my youth (thinking of other things) and an ability to follow orders. I am reading and re-reading your various how-to's and posts which are exceptional and hope to satisfy with results and share here.

[Roger Payne]

DPL,
Not arguing with what you say at all; obviously a serving sniper wants a rifle that is functional. Cosmetics are unimportant. However, on a restoration project like this, accepting that one is able to source parts that fit (or can be fitted) correctly, I suspect most people would rather have wood that looks like it all came from the same source & is a reasonable colour match than have butt, guards & fore end all of different woods & colours. That is the only point I make.

JM,
Re the 'oak' cheekpieces. I thought that for many years & indeed in the article I wrote for IDS's magazine some years ago I think I might even have stated that they were oak. However, I have spoken to a couple of fairly well informed people who say they are ash (it looks pretty well identical to me anyway), as oak was not used for stocking up British rifles due to it containing a substance that has a corrosive effect on metals (eg screws). I don't know if this is true but I have heard it from more than one source. Perhaps Peter can comment.....
Intersetingly, have you noticed that the preponderance of these oak/ash cheekpieces seem to be on BSA 1944 rifles?

ATB

[jmoore]

Intersetingly, have you noticed that the preponderance of these oak/ash cheekpieces seem to be on BSA 1944 rifles?

Haven't really thought about it! But it seems there's loose "OEM" replacements in that wood still out there, as both that we got from your side of the pond a couple of years ago were ash/oak grained units. The worst part is I can't remember where mine is... Might be with the other one, but that means it's likely in some unlabeled box.

It would have been interesting to have seen what was on the bulk of the Indian rifles that came into the states a few years back. Seems like there were many 1943 rifles in the lot. Not that it would have been accurately representative of how they were back during WWII, but little clues add up.