Japanese Type I

[Patrick Chadwick]

1) Please do NOT remove that finish. I think it might be original urushi. I.e. genuine Japanese lacquer, not the stuff that you buy in d.i.y.shops.

My reasoning:
The finish follows the wood ripples, dents and dings, and you have discovered that it also lies beneath the oil/grease layer in some places. A later finish would hardly be applied over the greasy patches, and would tend to fill the depressions. Please take a closer look with a watchmakers eyeglass. If it really is usushi, it will be very hard and unaffected by alcohol.

2) The scratched symbol does not look to me like a 7, but rather a Kanji 941 "Katana" = sword. About 2 inches to the left there might be another symbol - or, of course, a random scratch. Please look closer.

LATER:

OK, I just saw the later posting, and I'm too late. I just hope that I was wrong and you did not destroy an original finish. Probably not - if it had been urushi you would have found it devilish hard to get off.

[Aragorn243]

Patrick,

Definitely not original finish. I researched it for nearly a month before deciding to take it off. It had an oil finish underneath plus some minor staining. It also came off extremely easy, you could scratch it off with your fingernail. Not as easily as a Russian refurb but it didn't penetrate the wood at all. I had it completely refinished in about 8 hours. The dents were filled in, etc. The mark/scratch was very recent as it had no discoloration from age. It was also applied long after the butt stock shrank and the joint expanded. That with the glue in the joint indicated that someone worked on it sometime in the past and they weren't Japanese. I also found no indications the Type I's ever had urushi applied to them. Oil or nothing seems to be the case.

[Patrick Chadwick]

I am relieved to hear that the finish was definitely not original. It just shows that photos can really fool you!

[Aragorn243]

It looked real nice in the photos. Just not so much in real life. Probably the flash. The most telling area showing it was applied rather late is the area behind the bolt and safety. It was chipped pretty bad on both sides and the varnish filled the chips. I'm extremely pleased with the way it turned out. The underlying oil finish wasn't removed with the varnish and a light touch with some fresh oil gives it a nice light sheen without being shiny.

[bearhunter]

In Canada, the Type 1 rifles are rare as hen's teeth. I had been looking for one for close to 40 years. Even back in the day when I could just order them from across the Line. A few came up for sale, every once in a while but never in any quantities.

I tried on several occasions to purchase one or even two. The only ones I passed on were real beaters. Anything in VG or better condition was sold before I could get at it. Back in those days, we got the magazines about a month later than the folks in the States. Usually the places adverizing them would have less than 50.

The rifles you show here, would go for at least 50% more than you paid for them.

I finally managed to find one last year, minus a bolt. Not a big deal though. My local gun shop had an Italian issue bolt that fits perfectlyl and from what I can tell so far, the head space is good.

The bolts on the Type I are different only in the bolt guide/ejector slot. The Type I has the slot cut dead centre and the Italian Carcano has the slot offset about 3/32 in.

I was a bit worried that widening the slot to allow it to fit all the way into the receiver would weaken the bolt and make it unsafe. Then my mind went into gear and I realized that as long as I don't have to cut the locking lugs, all will be well.

Thanks for posting those pics. I can see now that the bolts should be blued. I will blue mine.

My stock is a dull reddish color and has a bit of damage around the rear grip area. Nothing serious. The stock, looks to be Beech.

It is my understanding that the rifles were left unmarked purposely, so that they could be stamped in Japan, just like many were shipped with unfinished wood.

It is also my understanding that they were bought exclusively for the Japanese Navy. They supposedly had problems with breaking off bolt handles and never issued many of the rifles, nor finished all of them.

[Midmichigun]

Bearhunt,
Could you break out and post photos of your rifle? I recently passed on a Type 1... and am thinking very heavily about grabbing the next nice one I see. So I would like to see yours!!