1944 Shirley No 4 T

[Roger Payne]

I would totally agree with Brian re the finish. The wood also looks unadulterated (nice & crisp marks of the right type in the right places!), & the scope has the slightly scarcer Rose Brother's examiner's mark of 'KD' rather than the commoner 'JG'. A nice genuinely matched rig.

ATB

[Brian Dick]

What are the markings on the underside of the forearm below the forend cap?

[Roger Payne]

Actually, whilst we are at it (I made an assumption when I said about it being genuinely matching - tho I'm pretty sure it will prove to be), confirmation that the scope serial is on the wrist of the butt would be nice, too.

ATB

[mhendrix]

Here are a couple more pics. As far as I can tell everything is genuinely matched without exception. The only major discrepancy is where a bit of rust had developed on the top of the optical tube on the scope near the set screw, but it's not really that terrible.

What will the marks on the forearm undeside tell us?Attachment 39456Attachment 39457

[Brian Dick]

Is there a serial number on the forend?

[mhendrix]

No serial number, there is the letter "N" over the number "49" shown in the last two pics located on the underside

[Brian Dick]

N/49 is the wartime code for H. Morris & Co. Ltd., Glasgow. The manufacturer of the forend. The examiner's marks are kind of fuzzy in the pic. I can't make them out too well. The forend is a replacement if it isn't numbered. If you remove the handguards and look in the channels, the rifle serial number will be penciled there too if factory original. The serial number of the rifle will also be on the top lip of the buttstock inside the butt socket. You would need to remove it to check.

[jmoore]

The forend is a replacement if it isn't numbered. If you remove the handguards and look in the channels, the rifle serial number will be penciled there too if factory original.

I would say the pencilled internal number would trump the added external number on the fore stock. Having no number on the outside doesn't mean it's not H&H. But it does mean it left the system pretty quickly Post WWII.

But if it has no pencilled number on the inside, then you are out of luck. And the style seems pretty distinctive.

[mhendrix]

From what I've compared everything to so far, this seems to be from H&H. There are too many distinctions that could only have come from that shop in my opinion. But with the serial number missing on the bottom of the forestock, I do question why it's not there? All the screw heads are like new is the reason I haven't removed the stock, but I will have to see under the forestock now and I will get a new set of pictures when I do. I'll try to improve on the pics too!

Thanks Guys

M

[Brian Dick]

Anything is possible. It certainly looks honest to me. I don't think I've ever seen a forend with the serial number penciled in the barrel channel. Only the handguards.