Japanese rifles prior to the Arisaka?

[Tahunua001]

hello all,
today my ADHD started running rampant and I as far as I can tell from my browsing history, I started looking at CZ54 snipers rifles then 1903 snipers, then sniper fakes which naturally led me to gibbs, which somehow lead to the prop guns that they made for 'the last samaria', then a long list of wiki pages trying to find the closest actual historical event that could have been the basis for a hollywood film to pass off as "a true story" only to really see that 'based on a true story" in hollywood means about the same as a Mossberg 535 shotgun is based on the blunderbuss. so now that i find myself questioning the credibility of Tom Cruise and his part in the Saigo Rebelion(?) I must wonder if the 1871 mauser was really in the hands of every japanese soldier of the era or if it would have been a mixture of several rifles bought from a number of different countries as this was a time of a very rapid arms race in europe where some countries were either replacing or modifying their arms every 5 years or so. anyone here an expert on this particular subject?

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[jmoore]

I'm surely no expert on the matter, but i do have a Japanese breechloading conversion of a British P'53 rifled musket. Upwards swinging breechblock sort of like a trapdoor, but the lock-up is completely different.

The bolt actions that came later were called Muratas. 11mm blackpowder cartridge rifles not unlike a Mauser '71. Some later Muratas were in 8mm. Tube mag on some, IIRC. Have had several variants of both in my hands at one time or another, but it's been 6-8 years.

[Patrick Chadwick]

a Japanese breechloading conversion of a British P'53 rifled musket. Upwards swinging breechblock sort of like a trapdoor, but the lock-up is completely different.

How about a photo? You probably have a Japanese M1868 Albini-Braendlin conversion.
There were also Japanese M1867 Snider rifles.
The examples I have seen of both types appear to be of mixed British/Belgian/Japanese origin, and it it not clear to what extent they were British rifles, or made up from British components with some help from the Belgians, or Belgian copies, or...???

Next came the Murata, Meiji Year 13 (1880) followed by the Murata Meiji Year 18 (1885), both with an 11mm x 60 cartridge.

The first Japanese "small-bore" rifle was the Meiji 22 in 1889, with a rather "Kropatschekish" appearance. The 8x53R cartridge was (at least initially) filled with black powder.

Next was the Meiji Year 30 (1897) - the first Arisaka type, in response to the Japanese experience versus Chinese Gew88s in 1894. These entered service in time to be the Japanese rifles used to combat the Boxer rebellion.

The M30 was later improved, and appeared as the Type 35 (1902) , introducing the sheet metal bolt cover. But this model was still not satisfactory enough. So it was "Back to the drawing board, Colonel Arisaka..."

...And finally, in 1905, the T38 arrived.

So you see, there was quite a history before the T38 Arisaka!

[jmoore]

How about a photo? You probably have a Japanese M1868 Albini-Braendlin conversion.

In actual fact I sent Badger a whole mess of photos of this rifle some years back with the intention of someday doing an MKL entry. But aside from owning it, I know nothing more than what's in Honeycutt's book, which in my old edition is about squat! Now if you want to undertake a small project...

[arado]

I acquired a Murata 22. Bought cases, loaded ammo and shot it. It was as good as anything in it's time. I was not a Japanese weapon collector so I sold it. Still have cases.

[seabot2]

There is a new Japanese Television series in production called Yae no Sakura which is supposedly a true story of a girl of the Aizu clan taking up firearms. I am hoping that the firearms used in the series will be historically true. Story starts from the 1850's and will probably cover the Meiji period. Seems the samurai family had access to some of the latest firearms of the period.