Did Canada evaluate the Leopold 2.5 "Alaskan" telescopic sight as well as the Lyman?

[breakeyp]

I have been looking at an odd ball No.4 Mk1* (T) with Griffin & Howe mount and rings that Ian Skennerton twisted my arm into buying at the Tulsa show about fifteen years ago. We took it apart at the show and it was different enough that I did buy it.

I know you are not to buy the story just the gun but the Texas dealer said enough to make sense with what we had in our hands. It came from a Texas estate where the former owner had retired from Long Branch Arsenal. He apparently took the receiver and mount home following his retirement and built the gun up using British parts.

I have shown pictures of the rifle before on various sites. The receiver is unmarked, Mk1* with a 1 inch circular plug fixed into the bottom of the receiver to move the trigger mounting location. Two opposed screws retain the plug into place. The trigger is lengthed about 1 inch to increase the moment arm [lighter trigger pull] and hung through a stamped steel triangular assembly. Skenerton has published a line drawing of this system as developed at Long Branch and not adopted.

The telescopic mount base is unmarked except for the oval mark on the left front of the mount. The rings are numbered 12. The barrel is an English 1941 unnumbered. Forestock and handguards are WWII period English production. The buttstock is Canadian with what appears to be a non stand cast steel butt place with no provision for butt trap door that is interchangeable with normal issue.

The rifle came with a Leopold 2.5 power post and crosshair "Alaskan" model telescopic sight number 90. My telescopic sight references do no list a Leopold Alaskan model but I note that the company existed in the pre WII period. My initial thought was that the gentleman knew his mount would take an "Alaskan" and may have bought the Leopold as it was available. As I can't determine the time period for a Leopold---could it have been a Long Branch and evaluated along with the Lyman? I note that Clive Law's book on Canadian sniping indicates that they also evaluated the Weaver scope Model 330 as well.

This started as it came without a rear sight and I just got the gumption to put one on it. Interestingly, I note that the Lyman scoped No. 4 had the battle sight removed in the same manner as the No.32 scope rifles. There is plenty of room that the battle sight did not have to be removed but-- we follow orders. It is amazine that things we don't know.

Warren--Dr. P--Peter??

Information

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[Warren]

Paul:
I have most of the records of the WW II sniper trials circa 44/45 and there is no record of a Leopold scope being used or evaluated.
HOWEVER, there was some work done on sniper rifles in Canada in the late 50's and 60's. I'm currently trying to find out if anything else was used as well other than the No.32 Weaver and Alaskan TP 32. Canada had a pi$$ pot full of 32 scopes, and the last batch sold off as surplus back in the 80's if memory serves me well. They went through an acquaintance in western Canada and some were just beat to snot I can tell you. There was one lot of No.32 scopes sold that I am aware of: mostly British Mk. I's and I think the number was around 25 units. I cannot recall seeing an REL of any Mk. in the pile. Other than the ZF69's and the Zeiss FN scopes, I think this was the only major release of sniper scopes in Canada. Others have "dribbled" out over the years on a one and two basis. Kosher ...?????
Leopold did make an Alaskan scope and I believe they have re-introduced it into their inventory.

[breakeyp]

Attached are photos of the unusual No.4 Mk1*Long Branch sniper rifle set up by the retired employee.

From left to right:

1 Receiver with no markings, unusual elongated trigger mechanism.
2 Bottom of receiver showing round plug inserted to provide a location to pivot the trigger assy. Plug is retained by two screws entering from the sides of the receiver.
3 Cast steel butt plate with no provison for butt trap.

[Warren]

My humble apologies on the scope list. I forgot our guys down under and afew corrections and additions.
There were two Pattern 18 scopes used in the trials. One "high bracket" and one "low bracket".
The Weaver was a model 330C mounted on a M1903A4 Springfield rifle.
The Canadian MK. III (modified) appears to be the Mk. 4 or the 67.
No mention of the Leopold scope at all.

[Lee Enfield]

The Leupold Alaskan was manufactured from 1990-1991 and marketed from '90-'92 in 2.5x, 4x and 6x according to the internet...

http://www2.leupold.com/resources/My...ndanswers.aspx

The Leupold Answer Guide

Alaskan Scopes
Leupold introduced the Alaskan scopes in 1990. All three waterproof scope models feature a Duplex reticle and a 7/8" steel maintube. Alaskan 2.5X Alaskan 4X Alaskan 6X The Alaskan scopes were discontinued in 1991.


Alaskan Scope Repair Policy
The Alaskan scope is warranted for five years from the date of purchase to be free of defects in material and/or workmanship. We stand behind every scope we make, and traditionally have made every effort to be fair to scope owners.

Alaskan Rings
Introduced in 1990. Precision-machined from solid steel, designed to complement the Alaskan scope's traditional blued steel finish. The 7/8"inch Alaskan rings fit any Leupold STD mount base. #44281 - Super Low #44276 - Low #44456 - Medium The Leupold Alaskan 7/8" rings were discontinued in 1992.

I have a similar butt plate in my "junque", but I believe that it is a stamping.

[Warren]

The butt plate LOOKS like the original issue plate on the No.1 Mk.1..........
There might be some slight differences, but I have a couple of the "No.1 Mk.1 "trapless" plates where I can reach them so I'll cobble up a photo later tonight. Shoveled snow from 9:30 to 16:30, burnt a Canadian gallon of gas (4.546009 litres), broke a shear pin in the blower and it is still snowing...
so a cuppa tea and then photo the butt plates.
We must remember that a pile of kit was made up on the side and out the door at LB for shooting bambi and moose. By the look of the rifle and the trigger I suspect it was made up for just that and carried out the back door for the fall hunt. Any notches on the stock or a hunting license in the butt trap ??? It is amazing how often you find a huniting license in the butt trap or under the butt plate.
Lee Enfield: How was the CHAS show???

[breakeyp]

The Leupold Alaskan was manufactured from 1990-1991 and marketed from '90-'92 in 2.5x, 4x and 6x according to the internet... .

This scope has picket post and cross hair recticule, not duplex and has 7/8 inch tube diameter, 2.5x (same as Lyman Alaskan). 1990 vintage I am sure would be 1 inch dia. tube.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

The trigger work seems pretty involved/expensive for something run up for possible civilian sales, or made by bubba. I note Skennerton's sketch of a unique trigger sketch set up by LB.

I expect the buttplate was an example of a cast steel design that was obtained before it could run down the line and have the butt trap holes added. I get the impression that most of this stuff was in an Engineer's drawer for show and tell in the office (guilty as sin there and glad I didn't have engine blocks at my desk!).

[Lee Enfield]

This scope has picket post and cross hair recticule, not duplex and has 7/8 inch tube diameter, 2.5x (same as Lyman Alaskan). 1990 vintage I am sure would be 1 inch dia. tube.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

The trigger work seems pretty involved/expensive for something run up for possible civilian sales, or made by bubba. I note Skennerton's sketch of a unique trigger sketch set up by LB.

I expect the buttplate was an example of a cast steel design that was obtained before it could run down the line and have the butt trap holes added. I get the impression that most of this stuff was in an Engineer's drawer for show and tell in the office (guilty as sin there and glad I didn't have engine blocks at my desk!).

The 7/8" Leupold Alaskan was marketed as a "modern take" of a Lyman Alaskan which had modern sealing and purging to replace that old junker scope...

Looking at your pictures and reading your description, I lean towards an experimental action from the model shop, lunchboxed out the door as Warren's hunting project....

I think that the Brit barrel and wood tends to reinforce that idea...

[jmoore]

The 7/8" Leupold Alaskan was marketed as a "modern take" of a Lyman Alaskan which had modern sealing and purging to replace that old junker scope...

Wouldn't mind having one (although until your postings was unaware of any such critter!) but finding 7/8" rings these days isn't as easy as I would have thought. (Looking for some late sixties or early seventies rings in that size for another project currently.)

But wouldn't a 1990's scope, even though "retro", be fairly easy to distinguish from a truly "vintage" scope?

[Warren]

Attached are three photo's of the No.1 Mk.1 original butt plate without the trap and for comparison a Long Branch No.4 Mk.1* butt plate.
The major defining difference is the top tag. The No.1 is rounded while the Mk.1* has more of a pointed form.
Comparing the rifle butt plate to the ones attached might help throw some light on it.
Made from factory reject parts, home workshop parts???
The 7/8 scope is however interesting and I cannot recall ever seeing or hearing of Leopold scopes being used in Canadian trials or tests, but again :"Never Say Never" Just when you think you have seen it all a curve ball from left field appears.
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