Help identifying this WW2 Japanese Rifle

[jko969]

I recently came across this Japanese WW2 rifle that the veteran brought back from the war. I have not been able to identify it as a typical Japanese rifle. The rifle had a spent round in the chamber. It looks like a British 303 shell but it is about 0.2" shorter. The Japanese mum is clear but the markings on the side appear to be Chinese. I apologize for the poor pictures. If anyone has any ideas or would like closeups just let me know. Thanks for your help.

Information

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[Aragorn243]

Type 30 Carbine perhaps.

[burb1989]

It looks to me like a Type 20 Murata carbine. I`ve only seen a few of these but this rifle shows very similar characteristics to the ones I saw (barrel barely past the forestock end, no obvious bayonet lug, etc.) If it is a Murata it is a very cool rifle from back in the day (One of Japan`s first magazine bolt-action repeaters from around the 1880`s if my memory serves me right).

[jko969]

Thanks for the lead. It certainly matches up with the pictures I found of the Murata Type 22. The one I have is the shorter carbine with an 18 1/2 inch barrel. I haven't been able to find much information or pictures for the carbine. The serial number is 90269 and there are no discarded or withdrawn from service marks around the mum like the pictures I found. I appreciate your incite and hope to learn some more about this weapon in the days to come.

[burb1989]

Glad to know you have a lead. From the research I did do when looking up Japanese bolt-actions I found that the murata was chambered as an 8 mm (not sure how close it is in resemblance to a 303. I should know the similarities seeing as how I have three enfields in my collection but for whatever reason I don`t know exactly). It is probably an original WW1 issue gun that was just put back into service sometime during WW2.

[Patrick Chadwick]

A .303 British is 2.207 long, head diameter .451", rim diameter 525"

8x53R Murata is 2.06" long, head diameter .492", rim diameter .558" (quite a bit fatter)
-but
7.62x54R Russian is 2.05" long, head diameter .489", rim diameter .570"
-so
-it ought to be possible to form Murata cases from Mosin-Nagant cases.
Assuming you want to fire it, of course!

[Patrick Chadwick]

It is indeed a Chinese-marked Murata 22
The 5th photo in the original post shows * * I I + I I * * *

* * are Chinese ideograms
I I is a 2 (like Roman numerals)
+ means "x10"
then II again

So... 2x10 + 2 = 22 !

[burb1989]

It is indeed a Chinese-marked Murata 22

Thanks for the correction. Some places called it a type 20 others a type 22 so it gets confusing sometimes. All in all I think this gun`s pretty rare seeing as how it is the cavalry carbine version (two of the ones I saw were normal rifles, the other was a cavalry carbine but missing a bolt). I wish I could find a gun like that. Congrats on your beautiful find!!!

[jonnyc]

This is the headstamp on my pretty rare 8mm Murata round made by the Japanese from 7.62x54R brass captured in the Russo-Japanese War. I love the raised Russian headstamp with the impressed Japanese marking.

[GUTS]

I have a Murata Type 22 rifle so I recognized it. The carbine is uncommon as is having the bolt head with your bolt. Most of these rifles were used pretty hard during the 1894 Sino-Japanese War and also during the Boxer Rebellion. All of the ones I have seen have had the bolt head removed and have the three concentric rings stamped over the mum. The concentric rings mean it was deemed unfit for service and was relegated to being a training or "school" rifle. I couldn't tell from the glare on your picture if the mum is stamped with the rings, if it is you shouldn't shoot it. It was a pretty amazing rifle for the late 1800's because it was a tube fed bolt action. Mine is a first series and was made the same year we were still using the Trapdoor Springfield, 1889.