Question about purchasing my first M1

[Brownac1983]

Hello all. I'm a new member planning my first Garand purchase and I have questions about a certain rifle. I want to know if you think I'm getting a good deal with this one:
The rifle has a Springfield receiver, 2,800,000 range. The barrel is a Springfield late '50s ('56 I think). It has National Match sights. The guy that has it was asking $1200, he says I an have it for $1,000 (what he paid for it). The condition is absolutely beautiful. The wood appears to be newer, or at least in great shape. The metal finish is 95%+. He said that he knew the rifle was special and that it was built for a Colonel in the Army match team, but that was about it. It has yellow highlighting in the receiver lettering and he seemed to think that meant something. It comes with the DCM paperwork.

He gave me the number of the man he got it from and I called and spoke to him. He confirmed that the rifle was bought by a Colonel in the Army Marksmanship Unit. He said the Colonel basically had his run of the place and picked the rifle he wanted from the DCM. The rifle was then sent to "Hook" Boutin to be gone through and accurized. He said that if I could pick it up for that price I should jump on it.

What do you guys think? Sorry for the lack of pictures, I didn't take any because I didn't intend on buying it when I originally looked due to the $1200 price tag, but after hearing that it is a Hook Boutin gun and that I can get it for $1K I am seriously considering buying it.

Is there any way to confirm that it is a Hook gun? I believe every word of it, but did he mark them or keep records that I could confirm against, I know that provenance is everything. Do you think Hook could look it up by serial number?

Information

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[Bill Hollinger]

First off, welcome to Milsurps.com!!! We are very glad to have you with us. This site is by far the best you will find on the subject of military surplus weaponry.

One thing stressed in the acquisition of milsurp weapons is buy the weapon not the story. That is not to say the story you were told is not 100% true however without provenance it is pretty much anyone's guess as to it's accuracy. The M1 rifle you describe sounds like an average post war rebuild with upgrades. As to it's worth of $1000.00? In my honest opinion that is pushing it however, without photos that is not the fairest of estimates. Detailed photos using the macro setting on your camera and a detailed list of all parts and drawing numbers will surely make an accurate estimate of its value much easier.

The serial number may or may not provide clues to it's history. There are others here that may be able to shed some light on that for you.

Remember this, without photos, it never happened

[Sarge1998]

I agree with Bill, never believe the story without a traceable history, convenient that the person he has you call advises you to buy it at that price, that alone tells me RED flag. Then again I had 33 years of listening to people spin a yarn, a few were true, but which one's?

The rifle sounds good and may be for less, without the DCM paperwork your talking to a used car salesman.

[Brownac1983]

Thanks guys. I've bought plenty from him over the years, I have no reason to doubt the story but for it to carry value I need to be able to prove it to someone else who has no reason to believe me.

The DCM paperwork is supposedly with it. He is bringing that from home for me to look at. Supposing it has that, which should indicate the original buyer (the AMU Colonel) that should be verifiable. What about the Hook Boutin work? I've found a few references to him using the yellow lettering as a signature of sorts, but does that mean something in particular, like that he did a certain type of work to it, or did he mark everything that he worked on with yellow?

[vintage hunter]

Hook may have highlighted the lettering but that prooves nothing IMO, anybody could've done it. I've seen a couple of Hook's rifles years ago and IIRC he marked them a certain way in the barrel channel, but even this is not absolute proof it's legit. The forgers are getting better and better every day. And FWIW, those rifles I saw had no highlighting of any shade.

[Brownac1983]

I guess that would be my question, how does one confirm a Hook rifle, and if he could confirm it how much value should that add to an otherwise VERY nice Garand?

[vintage hunter]

AFAIC there aint but one way, assuming he's still with us, absolute confirmation would have to come directly from the man himself in the form of a letter confirming that rifle passed through his hands and what work he'd done to it. As far as added value it would depend on who's looking at it. To a competitive shooter probably a fair bit, to a purist collector none. I guess it would depend on just how much you really wanted an M1 accurised by Hook Boutin.

[Brownac1983]

Thanks. I plan to look at it for what it is, price it according to the CMP grading criteria, and hope maybe I can get confirmation that it was a "Hook gun" later. When I get a look at the DCM paperwork, was their grading system the same as what the CMP uses now? It's a lot nicer than what the CMP states (and what I've seen from them) as their "service grade" criteria, it looks like what they describe as "correct grade" and were last selling for $1150 and up, but would it qualify as "correct grade" with the later SA barrel? The CMP states that "correct grade" rifles have "all correct parts for their date of manufacture," so how would they classify a rifle that is in nearly mint condition that has been arsenal rebarrelled in '66? Would that just be a really nice field grade, or do they restock them and call them "service grade specials" (currently $950 for an HR)?

[Sarge1998]

Have you checked the rifle for throat erosion and muzzle width? The Colonel with ties to the match team didn't order such a rifle and have work done just to pack it away for a rainy day ( I assume). It is also in no manner "correct". This is not to say it isn't a great rifle, but don't fool yourself thinking it's in the same shape as CMP special or better. If it was accuraized it should or could have some neat stock adjustments, but then again that's a guess. With the prices currently in effect for those not fortunate enough to have CMP eligibility or able to search estate auctions, $1,000 is not highway robbery, but you have to make that decision and feel good about it after the sale. As Bill said in the first response, pictures would really help, but you don't actually have unlimiter access or time to make your decision do you?

[vintage hunter]

Brown,I have no knowledge of the grading system so that is a question someone else will have to answer for you. I've never done a minutes business with the DCM/CMP because I could'nt meet the requirements to do so. No matter, I'm not that into Garands, Carbines or 1903's anyway. I have one of each but my addiction is Enfield No.4T's and pre-war Winchesters.