Is This Arisaka 1943 or earlier?

[SRiverrat11]

I bought this Arisaka in 2010. I have only now figured out how to post pics on Milsurps. I bought this from a woman who's Dad was a Navy Seabee in WWII. She did not know much about the gun. She only knew it hung on her dad's wall above his bar in his basement since she was a little girl. I asked if she remembered any stories of his about the war. She said he seemed proud of working on an airstrip that, "Somebody Gay" took off from. It took me a second then asked, "Enola Gay" and she said it was something like that. So, my question is...is this T-99 old enough to have been on Tinian( most Seabees Bn's went on to other islands but) and is this a real "Duffle bag" cut? I've heard sometimes they are faked. I know I have no proof anyway. I only paid $300 for it, but it would be nice to think it possible. He also "carved" "screwdrivered" his initials in the buttplate, but why twice? Last name Miller so that was no help on Ancestry.com Any thought from the experts would be appreciated.

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[fernleaf]

I would date it at 1943 or earlier, but to be super sure we'l need a DECENT photo of the serial number on the receiver, including a clear shot of the symbol to the left of the '1' in the serial number.

[Patrick Chadwick]

...AND we need a clear view of the mark to the right of the "3-cannonballs" mark, which could be Toyo Kogyo OR Tokyo Juki Kogyo OR Kokura Arsenals. If this mark is a circle with two short horizontal bars inside - looks like an aiming aid or artificial horizon - then it is Toyo Kogyo. A 4-lobed round mark is Tokyo Juki Kogyo. Anything else here is an inspection mark, and the rifle is from Kokura.
...AND a clear view of the safety knob (styles altered from one series to another)
...AND a clear view of the backsight arrangement (AA-wings or attachment points yes/no)
...AND a clear view of the front band (monopod attachment yes/no/maybe)
...AND a clear view of the entire rifle. At present I cannot even if it is the long or short version. Presumably short.

Take a look at McCollum, "Japanese Rifles of WWII" and you will understand why all this is necessary. The Type 99 went through endless small variations from one series to another. And, of course, may have been fitted with a mix of replacement parts over the years..

But what is TOTALLY USELESS AS EVIDENCE is the "duffle cut". This could have been done by anyone, anytime, any place. I would simply repair it!

[SRiverrat11]

Thank you, more pics. No anti-aircraft sights, and no monopod either. And you can't tell on the duffle bag cut. OK. Repair it? I doubt I will. Its part of the gun. I believe her story. She just knew nothing of the rifle itself, shame. I couldnt believe she was selling her family history.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

I couldnt believe she was selling her family history.

That part is tough to understand for me as well. Take heart that someone (you) are now a steward of such a nice piece of history and will care for it and pass it on with as much of the story as you can gather.

[Salt Flat]

River rat, Nice find. Regarding the duffle cut, I agree with Patrick, it should be repaired. It is really not very shootable until it is fixed. Even if you don't shoot it the forearm and handguard will slide forward everytime you handle it. It will become very annoying. Salt Flat

[SRiverrat11]

Ok, More pics of the reciever. Hopefully this will help. Oh! Bolt is non-matching. The few other numbers on it are. I have 10 WWII rifles. This is the only one I have with ANY story that I know. Thanks for all your help huys.

[Patrick Chadwick]

OK, I'm not a T99 expert, I'm just following the book:
The mark to the right of the "cannonball pile" stamp is not the supplementary mark for Toyo Kogyo OR Tokyo Juki Kogyo, but an inspection mark, so we are looking at a Kokura rifle.

The large recoil bolt is a feature that appeared in Series 25.
But Kokura retained the oval bolt handle throughout, so the bolt is not a Kokura bolt (and it has already been noted that the bolt does not match the rifle).

The series mark to the left of the number could just about be the one for Series 25. But Series 25 had lost the **99 mark on the receiver. But I think it looks more like the Series 22 mark. Certainly not Series 23 or 24. So I will stick with Series 22. Look at McCullum P.12 and you will understand that these marks are very difficult to distinguish if they are not clearly applied.

If it is Series 22, then the stock should have been drilled to take a cleaning rod.

My guess at present: Series 22 with later, non-original bolt.

And so, to answer the question posed at the start of the thread: yes, it would have been around in 1943.

[Patrick Chadwick]

He also "carved" "screwdrivered" his initials in the buttplate, but why twice?

I am not convinced that those letters are hand-carved. The strokes of the W and M are accurately parallel, and the M looks well-nigh identical to the W if you reverse the photo. I think it is some kind of unit/ownership mark, which was applied a second time (the horizontal version in the photo) because the first one was poorly struck or not in the correct orientation.

[Aragorn243]

Patrick,

The finish of the rifle is consistent with substitute standard. A series 22 would have been finished better as they were not substitute standards. The series mark looks like it could easily be a series 25 which you noted. It is not consistent, they never seem to be. Shouldn't be a "Type 99" mark on a series 25. Large recoil bolt would not be on a series 22.

What I'm curious about is where are you guys getting the year approximations? I've never seen a source for these and McCollum doesn't make any sort of mention of dates/series/etc.

When would a series 8 Nagoya have been made? And a production variation 9 bayonet?