Fake savage sniper on gun broker

[paul87buick]

This is a good example of a fake rifle . love the S51 stamped on the cheek rest. 1942 LEE ENFIELD No 4Mk1* (T) SAVAGE, SNIPER : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

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[Roger Payne]

......as they used to say in a local gun auctioneer's catalogue, 'a speculative item for the specialist collector'!! Even so, it would have been nice to see some close up detail of the pads & their fitting. That usually gives the game away if nothing else.

ATB

[Frederick303]

I like the way he weasel-words his description, saying the rifle is a Match rifle. It might be technically true as it could have been built up to be used in the Camp Perry sniper match, but not a real sniper rifle. So the guys description is technically true, but intended to deceive

Well I suspect with the various problems with this rifle, such as( see below) it will not sell

1) S51 marking on cheekpiece and not the butt
2) Post war replacement Canadian buttstock
3) Poorly sanded stock
4) Repo scope and mount
5) New sight base mounted.

[Beerhunter]

I sure looks like a Sexton Blake (as dear old Tom Keating would have put it) to me.

Apart from the obvious bloopers, everything about it is just too pristine - including the scope, tin, and I reckon even the sling . Even if the latter was an: "original sling dated 1942" we all know that it is wrong type. (BTW it is also fitted incorrectly.)

In the UK, we have laws about this. I feel very sorry for people who pay a premium for this crap believing that they have the real deal.

BTW, I have often railed against these so-called "reproduction" scopes because with those makings they are FAKES! and we are likely to see more and more of them being passed off.

[tlvaughn]

This is the second time around the block for this rifle. The first time the Seller had it listed with a Reserve and a Starting Bid of $995. It ended up getting two bids with the final bid being $1,500 (the Buyer should be thankful the Sellers Reserve was not met).

I like the Sellers thinking though, drop the Reserve and raise the Starting Bid to $2,995.00!!

[jimmieZ]

Thanks to all for confirming my impression of this blatant fake sniper. The Savage No.4 MKI (T) characteristics of my Savage sniper are quite different. I know, for a fact, that my rifle has the following characteristics:

Action serial number correctly stamped into butt stock spigot
Correct Savage marked butt with correct Holland & Holland "S51" stamping at butt wrist
Correctly mounted scope pads - were soldered to the receiver and machined after fixing
Correct British 5-groove barrel fitted at time of conversion
Correctly modified Savage micrometer rear sight - milled vs. Dremeled
All matching Savage small bits
Correctly proofed stock wood (acceptance stamps and serial numbered)
Correct Enfield examiner acceptance marks at rear of action (either side of bolt channel)

I also note that my rifle is not stamped with the stylized "T" on the left side of the action. It also does not have the "TR" marking at the action wrist or the "S" marking on the right side of the action just aft of the knox block. It does have the US ordnance bomb below the other markings on the receiver wrist. From the wonderful information provided non this site, I'm pretty sure my rifle is a Savage sniper that was part of the lot of "spares" that H&H substantially completed just after the armistace.

Thank you all.

Jim

[Ridolpho]

I wonder how it fared at Camp Perry! The front pad looks a bit wonky- the shot from the inside seems to show a wedge shaped gap between pad/ rifle body plus on the view from the left, look at where the screw centers project on the side of the receiver. I propose a fun thread: photos of the worst No.4T fakes. I would submit my Savage which has two TR's and a T on the left cheek, a TR on the underside of the forend, and two T's on the left of the action (first one glanced off, apparently). In my defence, not all of these marks are clearly visible (ie in a dimly lit town hall) and I was new to Lee Enfields- just the type these fakers are aiming for. On the bright side it's a great shooter (and the pads were solidly installed).

Ridolpho

[paulseamus]

Nice crack on the left hand side of forestock. Runs for about 3", from forward from the receiver , about a 1/4" down.

[Roger Payne]

Additionally the front hand guard is incorrectly fitted & projects forwards too far - probably fouling the foresight protector. A definite no-no if you want it to shoot sweetly. See pic 4.
Of course one should never say never with Enfields, but you could have predicted all this just having been given the serial number as it's too high for any genuine Savage conversion I've ever seen/owned/heard of. All of my Mk1* (T)'s have been from 12C to 14C though I've been told of 15C's as well. NEVER heard of a real one that high though.

ATB

[jmoore]

I propose a fun thread: photos of the worst No.4T fakes.

Might even be useful, if serial numbers are given. Include all questionable "T"s. Good for future reference for folk such as your past self that haven't purchased one before. But I'd suppose it ruffle feathers if live actions were included. Not that I'm against including live auctions, just expect some possible backlash...