Rare M1903s for auction in August

[Chuckindenver]

bushmaster is a replica, carbine is a replica, USMC sniper is a replica, air service is a replica..unless they have despo papers on these rifles...id be careful,
others may be genuine, but i would need more info and much more pics.. you dont have to take my word...spend the money and learn the hard way.
FYI: i never used the word fake for the record.
the USMC though a nice looking rifle, is a bad replica. and looks to have been just done.
the Air service rifle has many mistakes..bands, stock rear sight ect. id be shy on a few more without actually handling them

[Chuckindenver]

on the USMC.
bolt should be blackened, sights should be standard issue, and not USMC match sights, barrel should not have a star gauge at the muzzle, handguard has the wrong pitch, no asphalt on the rear sight base to hide glare, stock has too much open grain, stock should hae the grain closed, and would have been{ boned} finish should be darker Iron phosphate, rather then modern zinc..id bet i could find more issues if i held the rifle..but if ican spot those mistakes based on that one crappy pic...thats enough to see that its not Genuine.

[Chuckindenver]

notice the pitch on the handguard, standard combat sight, no open grain in the stock, bolt is also dark, and not brite polished

[Calif-Steve]

I wonder how the Auction House will describe these rifles. More news at 10:00.

[Rick the Librarian]

I'm hoping this one is different, but some auction houses are less than forthcoming about providing further information.

[Chuckindenver]

most auctions iv seen including the bigger ones, play dumb, i called them out on a couple replica snipers they had on display at th Co collectors show a couple years ago, the man hovering over me when i was looking them over, said..rare and nice..i replied...not for replicas.
then he asked why i thought that..so i told him.
then he asked how and were i got that kind of info..i said...some people, just know this stuff, but those arent the ones that you will sell them to, its the ones with deap pockets and no clue, be thankful the world has lots of those.
he just looked at me dumbfounded.

[Promo]

Chuck,

I have a genuine M1903 USMC sniper with a polished (and serialized) bolt and a star gauge (though not on the muzzle ). John Beard has confirmed that this rifle is genuine, therefore I wouldn't say that this is a no-go criteria. But besides this, I'd only agree upon the USMC sniper in the auction about being a fake, since there is a slot right between the rear sight base and the rear scope base - which shouldn't be. And of course you're right aswell with the fact that there shouldn't be an USMC front sight blade.

Regarding the other rifles such as the Air Service, I wouldn't allow to make an evaluation based on the single picture. Can you please let me know what is - according to your experience - wrong with the pictured Air Service rifle? There are not many original rifles documented in literature, and the few ones are with very bad pictures.

[Chuckindenver]

every genuine USMC sniper iv looked at seen pictures of, and held, had a blackened bolt..
iv looked at held, and observed well over 20 rifles.
though i respect JB opinion...id say my observation is spot on.
unless you can provide despo papers...id doubt the rifle.
heres why..
ask yourself. why a sniper would want something on his rifle that would glare or glint in the sun, and give away were said sniper was located?
also.
iv yet to see a genuine USMC snipers rifle with a ground on bolt. the one in the picture has the edge ground to clear the scope.
there are a few other tell tail signs of a genuine rifle that i wont go into detail, and with the pics shown you wouldnt be able to see them.

[Promo]

Looking up Brophy the pictured M1903 USMC sniper features a polished bolt. Also, these original pictures show polished bolts:



But to be correct I may quote John Beard (he's referring to a specific rifle):

Originally, USMC sniper rifle bolts were blued and serialized to match the rifle. But occasionally, bolts got replaced. And the blue finish on replacement bolts was not always consistent. The mis-matched serial number on the bolt is a concern. But, I note however, that the marking technique exactly matches that used by the USMC during the Korean War period. I am also aware that the USMC discontinued the practice of matching serialized bolts to rifles sometime after WWII. Many USMC service rifles today have mis-matched bolts. So while the mis-matched bolt is a concern, my concern is alleviated somewhat by the correct marking technique and matching period of use. I further note that the bolt is a B2 bolt. Many B2 bolts were issued to the USMC. A B2 bolt would be a prime candidate to be a replacement bolt for a sniper rifle. So, I have no doubt that the bolt was issued to the USMC.

To summarize: I agree with you that a 100% original M1903 USMC sniper rifle (as originally built) should have a blued bolt. I am however claiming that there's also the possibility that any M1903 USMC sniper received during a possible rebuild process a polished bolt.

And of course we are the same opinion on the rifle in the auction, as written in my last post.

[Chuckindenver]

both bolts in the pictures you have posted ar blackened...notice i didnt say....blued..
bolts should not be glossy or shine.. iv never said the bolts were blued or parkerized.
blackened was usually done by dulling the polished surface with an acid base mixture. when done, greyed the bolt, with service and use the bolt will turn silver, but not be bright..
also notice, as iv posted before, buttplates are not heavy checkered, lower pic shows the black tar on the sight base as well,
notice the upper pic shows th sling hooks blackened as well, though they have edge wear from use.
i dont just pull this out of my rear...i do the homework.
i have a N.S. marked bolt, with 3 serial numbers eteched into it..it was blackened at some time.
all the serialed bolts iv seen on genuine snipers were done just ahead of the safety lug rather then on the top of the bolt body.
what i was told by someone that rebuilt these rifles during Korea into the 1960,s it was so that when the rifle was being inspected, the serial could be seen only with the bolt open.