British Colt Armalite AR15 questions

[pzluchs]

Gentlemen!
What a 40mm grenade launcher attachment was tested with AR-15, when this rifle was chosen for procurement? Which infra-red light could be attached to the rifle with special bracket?

regards, Andrey

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

Are you actually in Taraz, Kazakhstan?

[imarangemaster]

The British probably used Colt M-148 grenade launchers. Probably the US made PVS-2 "Starlight Scope" would have been used.

[pzluchs]

actually in Taraz, Kazakhstan?

Yes

Probably the US made PVS-2 "Starlight Scope" would have been used

I don't think "starlight". Starlight isn't infra-red scope. Perhaps it was US Varo AN/PAS-4, or mysterious UK infra-red weaponsight XL2E1. I would like to know exactly

The British probably used Colt M-148 grenade launchers

I thought as well, but would like to know is exactly. And why it was not adopted?

[Peter Laidler]

I was using the very first British issue Colt AR15's in Malaya with the Australian Army in 1967. Replaced (not entirely though..... the Owens and Sterling SMG's with the British and New Zealand Army). We didn't have any grenade launchers at all. None, zilch. We had the old M203's. I fired one into the sand butts of the range and the gas was permeating from the sand for ages! No Infra red night vision either. The very first ones I ever saw were a very big heavy one that was almost too big for the L1A1 rifle. A bit later a special cover was introduced to take it and later, a UK version by RPP was produced and the US version was made obsolete.

We then had a special bracket made that fitted into the UK RPP made night sight box that would fit onto our M-16 rifles. By 1969, we were getting M-16's that were replacing our old original Colt AR15's. But definately no grenade launchers or UGL's on the AR15's

[pzluchs]

Thanks for answer Peter. I know that those attachments weren't adopted by British Army, but were tested in 1964-1965. I'm interesting for details of those trials

[Peter Laidler]

The man doing the actual running of the trials was Warrant Officer Maurice FOGWELL of the Small Arms School at Warminster (it was at Hythe then.....) He died recent'y so the trail is lost now I'm afraid. To be honest, Malaya and that area wasn't the best place to trial grenade launching. Yoiu had enough trouble just throwing them!

Incidentally, Major Fogwells piece de resistance and swan sone was giving the final say to the adoption of the FN-MAG58 GPMG into British service. There was a little story to that too. But suffice it to say, it's still going strong and some of the earliest guns are still giving service today. Or certainly were when I retired last year!

[Brit plumber]

Talking of IR scopes and GPMG, what do you think of this Peter?

Deactivated GPMG (General Purpose Machine Gun) British Issued - Modern Deactivated Guns - Deactivated Guns

The gun is a 1967 FN MAG but I don't think this one was a British gun, from everything I've learn't, I dont think we would grind out the original marking and remark it L7A2 would we? I always believed we barred out obsolete markings. Who ever bought it paid a lot of money.

[Peter Laidler]

Nope...... We always barr through. Have a look at some of the very early Enfield A1's (and even Belgian 1965/66 initial purchase guns - we had to buy several thousand to sweeten the make-them-at-Enfield deal) and you'll find the A1 barred out and re engraved A2. Occasionally you'll seee the L7A1 barred out completely and re engraved L7A2. If you look at our GPMG's, I'm sure that this was when we first started to call them MACHINE GUN, 7.62mm L7A1 whereas prior to this we always called them GUNS, MACHINE 7.62mm etc etc as in Guns, machine 7.62mm L4A4. I never saw a UK gun with the FN logo and even then, our original FN/Belgium guns, some of which are still in service have the usual BL xxA numbers. Mind you, we did take many captured Argentinian GPMG's on board. Several of these later appeared as DP guns but we didn't re-number them as appears to have been the case here.

But there might be some logical explanation that defies, er........... logic!

[Brian Dick]

It was marked MAG before being ground out and remarked L7A2. I have a post sample that was registered in the USA as an L7A2 but the original left hand side plate markings read MAG 2A which is an early FN mfg., Indian owned GPMG. The later ones are marked MAG 2A1. The LH side plate serial number of mine is A2336. It has also been rebuilt during it's service career and sports mostly EFD replacement parts so I'd say this is commonplace with Indian issue GPMG's.