And now for something completely different......

[Peter Laidler]

Need advice from a gearbox builder and this seems JUST the right forum to ask it! Been rebuilding a VW Polo GTi gearbox for a month or so and it won't be using it for at least a year+ or so and maybe a bit longer. Currently while still partially stripped ready for final assembly the box and internals are totally dry, oil and grease free. With all new seals/bearings etc, once it is together, the only access is via probe into the inside via the oil filler/drain hole and speedo/reverse light sender access points.

The question is this. What do you pro's suggest I do to the internals prior to sealing it up. Do I lightly oil everything with WD40? Liberally coat everything with a whole can of WD40? Just top it up with normal gear oil or thinner engine oil - or what? Obviously it'll need turning over in gear every month or so regardless

Go on then....... what do the pro's do?

Information

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[ArtioZen]

Hi Peter - I thought you were going to say: A man we three buttocks!...

It’s been a while since I worked cog boxes but here is what I did (you may choose not to):

WD40 will clean parts nicely - provides little protection in the long haul (not for motors or gears). I do use WD on a carb rebuild as it will help with the first cold start as the petrol becomes available.
gearbox oil is different to engines by the nature of the work and I prefer not to mix them - ever!

Gear oil is great at preserving part or fully built boxes and letting them transition to running without any hideous processes / consequences. - Fill the box up with your chosen standard gear oil and drain to the regular running level with the box in its intended installed attitude. Keep the drained oil in its original container and then add it back to full every 1- 4 months and drain again (depending on the local temp and humidity - oil a spare gear outside of the box and store in the same environment to get a picture of what could be inside).

The older VW boxes have fill and drain plugs that really help achieve this - not sure about your GTi. low speed rotation of the input shaft may not achieve much - and could be detrimental to the break-in of your new seals (they work in a specific P-V range), similarly selecting cogs through the shifter does not add much to keep it in working order - sequential H gate pattern only - make engine noises while you do it...

Soooo: the late 80s GTi gearboxes could be "rally readied" by: draining the stock oil to half, adding 4 ounces of Brasso and then thrashing the pants off the vehicle while shifting up and down frequently for an hour or so - then drain the oil and all the bits of metal (burnishing complete - mostly bronze from the synchro's) and fill 3/4 full with a lighter weight lube (ATF was preferred by our "tame" racing driver) - replace every race. oh and keep a can of Coke handy to help stop the clutch slipping if needed.

As technology has progressed the above ideas have become irrelevant but are contemporary to the Golf. BTW it was substantiated that the original GTi's do make more power if they are broken in aggressively...I hope this helps or entertains!

[ArtioZen]

I acquired a Porsche 914 motor in the early 90's and kept it for a "rainy day" project...I decided on an early VW transporter to receive the motor and become a practical driving classic, so I started a build that was interrupted by 15 years to move house 5 times - once across the Atlantic and twice across the States...stored and preserved as a "long block" per the above (but with motor oil). Finally settled on a 1969 factory Double Cab pickup truck 5 years ago - it was perfect! = no gearbox and engine - just a huge hole. So it’s been running for 3 years now - no storage or rehab issues - started right up (had to add carbs and accessories to complete it). Makes about 120Bhp and around 20 smiles to the gallon

So on a milsurp note - I can get for around $200 NOS Nato rifle mounts for the dashboard - ideally for a G3, but I have and prefer an L1A1...was torn between these and cup holders...I may use the upper rifle clamps as cup holders just as a novelty

[Peter Laidler]

L1A1...., that's a SUPERB project. VW campers and pick-ups I just love 'em to bits. You saying that doing the same treatment as thread 2 but with good engine oil would be OK. That SEEMS a good option as the oil has all the qualities and none of the drawbacks it seems. After all, when we assemble them on the bench we use engine oil to lube the needle/ball/taper rollers/bearings don't we?

Thanks again.

[ArtioZen]

Thank you sir! The truck came to me as a basket case - many of these budget working vehicles were destroyed by the original owners (typically contractors) within 10 years - this one was left for dead in the woods in the early 80's and was remarkably intact when found.

Yes - this engine was built and filled with 10-W30 for storage and now runs on it. I have blanking plates for the exhaust ports (the only real special hardware) - Mrs Breakdown would not tolerate slight oil seepage. All other holes were blocked with the stock accessories, all valves are stainless and it was stored with the rocker shafts off (all valves closed / no pressure on the springs and cam / followers). I only intended to store the motor for a few months and then things changed! I also knew that once fired up the combustion products would present corrosives and accelerators that would only take inside of 6 months to wreak havoc in storage - so I resisted the urge to run it until the truck was ready to be road worthy.

I was an Apprentice at Rover and was schooled to always prep parts and "wet build" everything with the operating fluid you were going to use throughout the device's working life. Good quality gaskets - mostly paper for the VW and they all go on wetted with oil onto clean / dry / 32Ra max mating surfaces (there’s that prep thing). The race shops and DIY aftermarket have developed several compounds for build and storage which I have not used (they get dissolved into your fluids - or react with them - or get sucked into the filters) - their only advantage seems to be increased build speed and resultant "glued together" reliability to replace the prep. Despite this strict regime of operating fluid only, wet build and prep I have never had a flat cam, or unequal compression, major leaks or an engine that would not start first time.

If you are interested I can look to post some before shots of the truck - quite a transformation and a journey I will not repeat!

Cheers!

[Peter Laidler]

I did exactly the same with my '69 Austin Cooper S. Would love a good photo of the pick-up to use as my next screen saver! Brian Dick's (of BDL Ltd fame) jeep is up at prsent so your will be next.

Incidentally, I know all about some of these 'special' mating cements that leave you with a glued together engine and box after using them on my wifes old Triumph Dolomite Sprint of the 80's. With my old Commando, I got it oil tight by lapping the surfaces on a glass plate and lapping paste. The quality of the original flatness/levelness of the surfaces was truly dire......

To be honest, I should just stick to small arms. Much cleaner and less fiddly!

[ArtioZen]

The Commando description fulfills the "prepping" criteria - even good OE parts need all surfaces and edges checking - especially for your "keeper".

As found photo of the truck - "It was taken out of the woods, but the woods were not taken out of it..."

I will PM some screensaver worthy VW photos (my historic mounts).

[Peter Laidler]

I know that you'll all be completely underwhelmed by my gearbox progress................!!!!! simplicity itself to strip - if you've got the right stuff of course but the layshaft bearings were a bit of a pig to remove so I resorted to the cutting wheel. The only bit of ruthlesness it really needed. All assembled now ready for when current in-car box finally gives up the ghost. The ratios in this 16v box and the FD ratio of 3.5:1 are what give the torquey 16v cars their loooong legs.

Thanks all especially L1A1 and the others who PM'd re bearing cross references and use of aircraft quality oil seals. Thanks again

[bigduke6]

On the subject of gearbox,s and VW,s, this gearbox is a bit of a hand full and sound a bit crunchie when someone drops a 13mm ring spanner inside !!! the bloke is leaning over the main shaft to the prop, his right hand is under the fixed gear Lube oil p/p and the shaft with the coupling on is the drive to the shaft alternator.




And a few pics for the VW combi fans, these two I imported from Brazil, were the splitscreen was still in production until 1974.

[Peter Laidler]

MORE VW's........ great to see...... Did you import them via an importer of were you able to import them as deck cargo on one of your ships? I brought back a 16v Golf from Germany as freight in an RAF Hercules